This might stir up a hornets nest....

[Triple B]

http://realfooty.com.au/news/news/tanks-for-nothing-carlton/2007/10/12/1191696179365.html

Whilst I cannot feel any empathy for the Illegals, stuff 'em I say, it's hard not to agree with Trevor Nisbett in this article.

Will be interesting to hear the Baggers response.

[goswannie14]

No sympathy at all for the Illegals.

The Blues did nothing wrong, so what's the beef?

[573v30]

Roos wasn't too happy with Carlton tanking and the trading process that followed, the Illegals didn't get the #1 draft pick and of course they're still pissed off.

[Triple B]

No sympathy at all for the Illegals.

The Blues did nothing wrong, so what's the beef?

They might have not broken the rules, but I believe they did plenty wrong. They rorted the system and it's not healthy for the competition and not good for the other 15 clubs or the game.

Don't let the fact that it helped stitch up WC cloud the facts. If Sydney were on the wrong end of this, say Goodes wanted out and we were forced to accept a lesser offer than if everything was above board, this board would be in absolute meltdown.

And it could have affected us. Carlton had the Pies done like a dinner late in the year. Fevola given a rest, Saddington put on Rocca for 5 minutes so the big heap can kick 3 goals + any other tactic necessary to lose.

If not for our own incompetence late in the year, that tank may have been the difference between us playing Collingwood in Sydney and having to take them on at the MCG. the fact that they probably would have beaten us anyway is irrelevant.

The interesting thing is, which was the point in the original thread, that up until now everybody knew/suspected that the 'tank' was on, now somebody has actually come out and accused them of it.

[goswannie14]

IMO it's the system that is the problem, not how teams make use of it.

Think for a moment (God forbid) if the boot was on the other foot, and we were in Carlton's position, how would we have wanted the team to play?

FWIW, I don't think any first round or priority picks should be tradeable, but that's just another of the long list of theings that we at RWO think needs to be changed with the draft system as it stands at the moment.

[liz]

I think the whole trade / draft scenario raises a few questions.

It is easy to argue that the best player in the competition (certainly one of the best two or three) is probably worth more than West Coast got for him. But exactly how much is he worth? Unless you swap two players of approximately equivalent standard, it is almost impossible to put a value - in player or pick terms - on someone like Judd.

On the other hand, one can certainly question why West Coast are entitled to anything at all. After all, didn't they just "strike lucky" by recruiting him in the first place? They were crap in 2000 (and crap out of proportion to the quality of the list - they didn't spend a while down at the bottom like Carlton have). And they did badly enough to get themselves a priority pick that year - just as Carlton have done this year (and most other years in recent memory). Had West Coast won one more game that year, they wouldn't have had Judd.

I certainly hope the Swans never get compensated for losing Goodes - the closest thing we have. I hope he retires a Swan and has to be replaced for nothing by the next 40 something pick in some future draft.

Sure, they got him for nothing, some will argue, but how about all the time they put into developing him? That's probably a stronger argument for mid range players who become very good players, rather than for the absolute stand-outs like Judd. It would probably be a stronger argument for someone like Goodes - though even there it is impossible to separate the work the club did with the determination of the individual. But Judd was clearly going to be a star right from day 1. I think he played round 1 2002 in the WAFL, after which his WAFL coach declared that he didn't expect to ever see him again.

In reality free agency has existed for a while. Nick Stevens and Jade Rawlings are two players who clearly didn't get to go where they wanted. But the number who do get to their club of choice far outweighs those who don't. I think I'm in favour of moving completely towards free agency for players with a certain period of time in the game but I'd like it to go in hand with a few other changes that I don't expect to happen any time soon (like rotation of draft picks, rather than the current way of determining order - let's get rid of any reward to teams for being rubbish).

[swantastic]

One word shonky,like i have said in the past and i will say it again a lottery system is the only way to go for the draft plain and simple.

[satchmopugdog]

Liz,

Great post..keep up the good work. Pearls.....swine.

[Zlatorog]

As long as "fat controller" is in charge, nothing is going to change until he sees Victorian clubs back in power they used to be last century. He'll change the draft system when non-victorian side again start occupying the bottom 6 positions starving them of priority picks to make sure that Victorian teams are not challenged again.

Just my 2 cents chipped in...

[elroy67]

Don't let the fact that it helped stitch up WC cloud the facts.

I'm not sure that WC have been stitched-up? They have pick 3 and 20 in this years draft.
They have traded for a player that was taken at pick 4 by a club who had previously been restricted from the draft. All this from a club that has finished 2, 1 and 4 in the last 3 years.

And it's not as though they are paupers in the midfield department without Judd.

[Robbo]

Carlton are a joke.

[reigning premier]

I agree that tanking is pretty average and IMHO, a lottery style system should be introduced for the bottom four, mid 8 and top 4 teams. That would ensure that even if you do tank, you won't get an advantage. Seems fairly simple to me.

What I do find hilarious is the WCE bleeting and moaning to the AFL about integrity and sportsmanship... WTF???? Fair suck of the savaloy boys... You guys are happy to flaunt the rules and rub everyone else's nose in it, but when someone gets one over you, you go crying to the AFL. Here's a thought, manage your club and players with just a modicum of integrity and as if you give a flying @@@@ about what sort of example you're setting, and perhaps we'll all start giving a @@@@ what you think.

Suck it in WCE. You reap what you sow. And you've been sowing big bags of @@@@ for a long while now. Time to swallow it all down.....

[AnnieH]

Carlton have been tanking for years. They've had the top three draft picks in consecutive years and now they have Judd.

Time will tell what they do with that type of talent.

If they finish at the bottom end of the ladder (again) in 2008, I'd start asking serious questions - or at least if I were a blues fan, I'd be asking for the head on a silver platter of the board and all the coaching staff.

The criminals lost in this deal because the draft this year is as boring as bat@@@@.

[hammo]

Carlton and Judd have effectively rorted the system.

Judd should have been traded for the #1 pick, but Judd's naming of his preferred club robbed WC of any bargaining position with Carlton.

I also don't know how his employment as an ambassader for Visy could be considered legal.

[ScottH]

I also don't know how his employment as an ambassader for Visy could be considered legal.

It his cardboard personality.