2nd Sydney team effect on the swans

[footyhead]

I think you should take another look at the history Charlie, In Melbourne as well as in Adelaide and WA.
Also think about the Sydney Market. There are more poeple west of Parramatta than East of it. There is a very large market out there indeed. They need another club out there in western Sydney that much is obvious.
That alone ought to be enough to make the Buldogs want to relocate, and also enough for us to support them in that desire.
Other than that I think my other posts have already answered your arguments about this topic Charlie.

[j s]

Originally posted by footyhead
Because in the medium to long term it would actually grow the swans faster than they are now capable of growing. Buisiness academics have known for a long time that the right amount of competition is the perfect catalyst for growth in most markets. Especially AFL and a market the size Sydney.
Both teams would prosper, Medium to long term.

This I agree with! Having "two teams in town" would (potentially anyway) create demand through local competition and rivalry. What better way to instill fierce loyaly than by having a local rival.

It would give the local media twice as much to write about. Hopefully only one team would be "down" in any given season. With two reserves teams in town there is a better chance of building the local comp to higher levels.

None of this is certain of course and any reloated team would certainly need subsidising for some years but if a relocated team were guaranteed X games in VIC with "home game member privileges" for (say five or ten years) then the loss of VIC membership could be minimised.

The option of a "joint membership" with the Swans for a few years could also help.

[robbieando]

There are more poeple west of Parramatta than East of it. There is a very large market out there indeed. They need another club out there in western Sydney that much is obvious.

I'm against the "Because they are there, we should have a 2nd team"

I'm sure there is alot of people West of Parramatta. But to think that they are just waiting for a team is wrong. There is nothing to suggest this, other than the fact 2million people live out there. Claim all you want that Western Sydney is a market that is crying for a AFL team, but there is no proof, and I can't here a cry for a team.

There is no way the AFL will pour in $10 million plus a year that will be needed to get this off the ground, without proof that a 2nd team is needed. The Swans this year alone are stuggling for sponsors and members so you can only see what it would be like with a 2nd team, along with the 9 NRL clubs, the NSW Super 12 team, the 4 NSL clubs, the 2 Basketball Clubs and the 2 Netball teams.

Everyone knows Melbourne is the Sporting captial of Australia, yet it has less sporting teams than Sydney and Melbourne can bearly cope with the teams they have.

The stress on sponsors could send both club broke and that would kill off AFL in NSW as we know it. Remember if the Swans are posting $1million losses and are cuting cost to stay in profit, I can tell you that a 2nd club would only make things worse.

Please come back to me when you have proof that Western Sydney is crying out for a AFL team

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Originally posted by Charlie
Well... I'm going to be selfish, and say that I don't want a second team in Sydney. Why would I want to encourage further competition for the Swans' marketplace? Doesn't make much business sense to me...

I have discussed this point with Brycey at length in the past. All I can reply with is a clearly emotional response- I have spent a good deal of my life getting Sydneysiders to like the Swans. I don't really warm to the thought of Sydneysiders now having a chance to cheer against them. That would hurt, BAD!

At the moment, I don't think I could handle that!

Remember the Hunter Hariners!

JF

[Charlie]

Originally posted by footyhead
I think you should take another look at the history Charlie, In Melbourne as well as in Adelaide and WA.
Also think about the Sydney Market. There are more poeple west of Parramatta than East of it. There is a very large market out there indeed. They need another club out there in western Sydney that much is obvious.
That alone ought to be enough to make the Buldogs want to relocate, and also enough for us to support them in that desire.
Other than that I think my other posts have already answered your arguments about this topic Charlie.

Melbourne?

What's that got to do with it? And what should I look for when I go back to the history books?

Just because there are people there, does not mean they need or even want a team. It seems that everyone arguing in favour of a second team are only looking at benefits for the code. Tell me a benefit for the Swans and then perhaps I'll listen.

[penga]

where are u from footyhead? i suspect melbourne, in that u dont know western sydney very well... i dont like the idea as its major benefits are a cross town rivalry... ill take swans vs pies rivalry for now! one darby game a year and u expect financial success??? when we win and win well, thats when numbers will be back and thats when there is money to be made not by setting up another team... the second club, i suspect, would have a lul of at least 15 years that would just kill the AFL, i dont support it...

[footyhead]

I and others already have listed the benifits. A number of them actually.
And by the way I am from western Sydney (West Ryde ) and I know it a lot better than most of the people on this board.

[Beaussie]

If the Western Bulldogs or any struggling Vic team for that matter decides to relocate to Western Sydney, I'm all for it. Who's to say they would be unsuccessful for such a long period of time. Weird and wonderful things happen in footy. Just think back to our form in 1995-1996. Who would have thought we'd be there on the big day in September 1996? If the Bullies or others want it, let it proceed, surely their relocated survival comes before the team sadly folding altogether.

[robbieando]

Bryce as shown by the Swans, it takes a long time to get a team settled in Sydney and even now we still haven't fully settled. Why bring a 2nd team in when the Swans aren't settled - it will cause more problems than benifits

[Beaussie]

Originally posted by robbieando
Bryce as shown by the Swans, it takes a long time to get a team settled in Sydney and even now we still haven't fully settled. Why bring a 2nd team in when the Swans aren't settled - it will cause more problems than benifits

Personally, I think the Swans are finally settled and accepted by the Sydney/NSW public. Average crowds and a membership base of 20,000+ prove that we have a successfully built a loyal core supporter base that improves when our form is good and the bandwagon supporters are thrown in.

Benefits provided by the further development of the code, as others have said, would no doubt flow on to the Swans (i.e. increased general interest, additional media exposure etc, etc).

Robbie, I think like our last debate about the merits of a second Sydney team we will once again have to agree to disagree. Cheers anyway

[Dpw]

Originally posted by Beaussie
Personally, I think the Swans are finally settled and accepted by the Sydney/NSW public. Average crowds and a membership base of 20,000+ prove that we have a successfully built a loyal core supporter base that improves when our form is good and the bandwagon supporters are thrown in.

Benefits provided by the further development of the code, as others have said, would no doubt flow on to the Swans (i.e. increased general interest, additional media exposure etc, etc).

Robbie, I think like our last debate about the merits of a second Sydney team we will once again have to agree to disagree. Cheers anyway

How many members would the Swans lose to the new club hasn't been factored in to your argument and Sponsors how many would we lose or have to share I don't think the market is quite ready for a second side yet.

[robbieando]

Bryce we have 23,000 members of which 6000 are from Melbourne. That leaves 17,000 members in Sydney which is around the figure the Bulldogs and Kangaroos have - hardly anything to suggest we are settled.

As proven by the Swans drop in Sponsors this year, a 2nd team would only be a drain on sponsors and could put us towards the edge once again. There is no promise of big crowds for the 2nd team, nor members.

The numbers don't support a 2nd side and as I said last time it will be at least 20 years until we see a 2nd team in Sydney. There are more markets available to the AFL first - such as Canberra and Tasmania. Just because there is 2million odd people out West doesn't mean we are ready for another team.

By your and many other people's logic, Melbourne should get a 2nd team in the NRL because they get crowds which fill half their stadium and it would help development of the code no end and heck we should put it out in the Eastern suburbs because there are over 2 million people out this way???

Now I don't think thats a good idea now is it???

[Beaussie]

Originally posted by robbieando
The numbers don't support a 2nd side and as I said last time it will be at least 20 years until we see a 2nd team in Sydney. There are more markets available to the AFL first - such as Canberra and Tasmania. Just because there is 2million odd people out West doesn't mean we are ready for another team.

[/B]

Robbie I have no doubts that you will be proven wrong in regards to a second Sydney AFL team. Maybe not next season or the season after but definately in the next 5-10 years, well before your suggestion of at least 20 years.

I'm sure the Bulldogs (members, admin, sponsors etc) if push comes to shove, will choose relocation to Sydney over a merger (takeover). At least that way their traditions like the South Melbourne traditions we enjoy will continue.

As I said before time will tell and as for Canberra and Tasmania,
well I don't think that will happen in my lifetime. The markets are are just too small, remember the Cannons and Devils in the NBL and the Cosmos in the NSL????? You still think these markets are realistic for AFL expansion????? I would think not!

[robbieando]

Bryce as I said before Tasmania is a football state. Trying to tell me what happened to soccer teams and basketball teams is pointless. Because if we follow that logic, Sydney can't have another team - because didn't the Kings go bankrupt before the start of last season and isn't the Parramatta Power going to shut up shop at seasons end because the Eels are pulling out????

Give me proof that a 2nd team is wanted and would be able to stand on it own 2 feet without AFL funding??? You can't. If Stadium Australia was build in the Eastern Suburbs would the call for a team in Western Sydney be taking place - of course not.

[Beaussie]

Robbie I think I shall cease discussing the merits of a second Sydney AFL team with you. Your continual negativity towards what I amongst others see as further development in NSW is no longer worth a response.

I'll give it to you though, you obviously know everything about the state of football and its development in NSW, Sydney and Western Sydney, all of which is particularly interesting coming from someone who has never lived in NSW let alone Western Sydney. Anyway that aside, as I said in an earlier post I have no doubt your 20 year plan for a second team will be proven wrong.

Bring on the Western Sydney Bulldogs.