Bandwagoners

[liz]

Originally posted by JF_Bay22_SCG

A possible suggestion, why not have say 3-4 bays of reserved seats for those who do wish for that. And then leave the rest of the ground as unreserved. With special incentives for those who want to sit in the concourse bays in the Messenger and Bradman Stands, as that is by FAR the emptiest pat of the ground.

Not sure that would be enough - off the top of my head I'd guess there are 12-15000, maybe more - reserved seats sold each year. Many of these occupants, like me, go week in, week out and have sat in the same seat for year. And they are scattered around the ground. Where would you put the concentrated areas of reserved seating without displacing loyal fans who stump up their cash and attend regularly year in year out. They are the core support group, the ones who make the bandwagonners the icing on the cake.

A slightly different - but related question - is making the empty stand seats more attractive financially. I think they cost around $60 a pop on a casual basis, maybe more with a booking fee. Buying a membership gets a 50% ish discount so the cost doesn't seem too bad but its a big cost for someone just going to a few games. Now that the season is halfway over and membership levels are where they are going to stay for this year, how about a 3 match pass for the stand seats at, say a 40-50% discount to the at-gate cost. It could work on a voucher system whereby you buy in advance but then exchange a voucher for a ticket (with a specified seat) at the box office on the day. That would give punters flexibility over which games they attend.

Another possible idea would be to sell stand seats on a game by game basis to existing members who wanted to take friends to sit with them, but again on a game by game basis and at a reduced cost - say $15-$20, plus a general admission ticket on top to get into the ground. So the all up cost would be around $40.

[undy]

Unknown to most Swans members, there was some innovation on ticketing for this game - members from BOTH clubs got access - good on the clubs for trying to pack us in:

It was a fortunate that not all eligible members from both clubs rocked up yesterday - we've got about 21,000 and they have around 20,000 (Templeton31 says)... I think that is just over the SCG capacity. They had someone outside the ground issuing tickets to Doggies members who hadn't pre-booked them.

I'd guess that the Swans get money back for these tickets from the doggies, as we had already paid them $200K for the right to sell tickets. Anyway, it was an interesting idea double-selling them. If the game had been a round 22 clash to decide whether the dogs made the finals, then it could have been interesting.

Andy

[j s]

My thoughts:

The stands should remain as reserved seating as they always have been but the reserved concourse area should be radically reduced. At a very minimum the bays at the front of the 'hill' area should revert to unreserved even if this means relocating those currently with seats in that area (exception: the two cheer squad areas)

The club has done forced relocations before - when the Brewongle/Churchill L4 seating was converted to mini boxes all those with seats on that level (mostly Redback members) were forcibly moved elsewhere. As an incentive they could offer a stand seat at the concourse price for the first year and, of course, priority in keeping groups together.

[swansrock4eva]

I like that idea liz, but part of the problem involved in that - mr x rocks up to the weagles and saints matches then misses a couple. At the same time, Mr y missed both the weagles and saints matches but rocks up to the Femantle and Hawthorn matches and then both have one spare useage left for the Collingwood match at Stadium Australia - do they get to use that last token there or do they lose out?

I'm not against the idea of reserved seating - for those willing to fork out the money it's a great idea of ensuring a seat for when it's tough to get in and that sort of thing, but when you don't turn up, it generally ensures your seat remains empty. If they gave members ample warning (i.e. if they were to announce in a couple of weeks (haha!)) that there was going to be a major restructuring of the seating at the SCG, which would mean they could to lose their seat, then that gives them time to be arranging with the people they sit with for next year what they want to do (even swapping phone numbers so that discussions can happen when packages are actually released), or give them an option of keeping their seat and by the start of the season next year, any "old" reserved seats not sold should just go straight back to the public. At least that way, if members don't turn up, there will most likely be what would have been empty unrenewed seats now with bandwagoners in them. It might mean that any new members next year that sign up after the season starts will only get full club membership without a reserved seat, but it could partially solve the seating problems that ARE going to arise as soon as people realise we're not doing so badly anymore. As it stands right now, we can have a "sellout" game against the eagles and still have many thousand seats empty.

[Bart]

I sit on the O'Reilly wing with 10 mates. I am close to bar, food, toilets, exit etc. I have sat there since reserved seating was introduced.

I love our seats and have no intention of moving.

[Jon]

Originally posted by Bart
I sit on the O'Reilly wing with 10 mates. I am close to bar, food, toilets, exit etc. I have sat there since reserved seating was introduced.

I love our seats and have no intention of moving.

I reckon this post would just about sum it up for most reserved seat holders.

However, we must remember....for many people (inc myself) the reason we bought reserve seating in the first place was that it became a neccessity around 97/98. The SCG is fairly small, and I could quickly see us ending up like Adelaide who had a waiting list for memberships in the 10's of thousands. My attitude was "better get into this while I still can".

I think the club has been creating more public seating since this high water mark. They twisted the SCG's arm and got a further 5000 seats out them in the members area, more seats have been built, and now membership has dropped from the high 20's to the very low 20's.

Partly this is why I'm a big fan of games at Telstra...it creates room to advertise the game outside the 20-24000 hardcore fans who now monopolise the seating.

[bay_4]

You can't really complain at the moment though about bringing friends along to sit with you in reserved spots. There'd be very few spots around the concourse where you couldn't just sneak people in with general admission seats and sit in the spare seats next to you. They don't check tickets once you're in the ground.

[penga]

Originally posted by JF_Bay22_SCG
PS:- Play the ball and not the man Penga and everything will be fine mate! PEACE

this argument is personal as it has nothing to do with a player's performance or how the team went... so i'll play the man...

Originally posted by JF_Bay22_SCG
The typically Sydney "it's all about me" syndrome reigning supreme yet again.

this is exactly what SSI is about to me... mainly your own personal agenda... ive shutup for a long time about SSI issues but this one is ridiculous



me and my family have 5 memberships, my nanna doesnt come anymore coz she cant and my sister usually doesnt come, so this means that i usually try and bring along 2 friends... thats how we solve the friends problem...

also, JF, u r talking about rocking up at half time for games ATM where we could score seats in empty parts ("Brewongle/Churchill or O'Reilly")... if and when the bandwagoners turn up, which is what u r trying to force, this will mean that these areas will be full... also, the "bandwagoner" members will also be turning up then, so these areas will be full anyway... quite a contradiction!

[swansrock4eva]

Penga there is a difference between an argument using personal anecdotes and an argument where it just gets personal. At the moment you're heading towards the latter rather than the former.

Aside from that, the argument being made is something along the lines that as it is right now, if the swans keep winning, more bandwagoners will want to get on board but simply won't be able to because there will still be empty seats all over the place through members who don't want to brave the cold when they can hang out at home and watch it on the TV. When we get people who DO want to and can't, they're less likely to want to try to come back for the next match - THIS is where it gets difficult. Look back on the crowds of 98-99 etc, when we'd started to go off the boil a bit but were still the trendy thing - GA sales were still great and the word "sellout" was still heard quite a bit, but crowds would only be 35,000 - that means that 7,000 seats were empty and they were ALL members. That is what will happen again and because people generally don't use the resale program those seats STAY empty. Regardless of whether SSI pushes it or what, it is something that will have to be addressed whether people want it to be or not if we keep going on from where we are now.

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Originally posted by penga

also, JF, u r talking about rocking up at half time for games ATM where we could score seats in empty parts ("Brewongle/Churchill or O'Reilly")... if and when the bandwagoners turn up, which is what u r trying to force, this will mean that these areas will be full... also, the "bandwagoner" members will also be turning up then, so these areas will be full anyway... quite a contradiction!

But this is all fanciful at this stage. At the moment the bandwagon is not back (Homebush aside, where we still draw good crowds). The NRL and the Wallabies are the big thing now. Nobody is talking about the AFL in the way they did back in 97-98.

I just think having all the ground unreserved reverts things to a "level playing field" ideology-those who get in first get the best seats. And the advantage if people get in earlier is that the Ressies get a bit of support too.

I sit in the CS, so this matter is not my personal matter at all. You refer to me using SSI with a set agenda. Hardly, I'm only suggesting that in future membership-related issues etc etc could be brought up with the club, with SSI acting in a role of deseminating member opnions and information (if you don't believe me, check out the survey at Swanssupporters.org-some of the feedback is very interesting.) If most members say that they want set-seating then there is no cause for comment. But the issue of unreserved member seating will not go away, with many Swans supporters still bring this issue up 6 years after they istigated set-seating.

I just hate the set-seat Americanisation of Australian sport. I now do not go to the cricket in Sydney because I couldn't be arsed trying to organise tickets with my friends in October, which is normally when you have to in Sydney. In Melbourne you simply rock up at the gate, pay at the turnstile, rush to Bay 13....and get chucked out 2 hours later! Easy, easy easy.

We have lost our hills/standaing terraces at every AFL ground. In the NRL they are also on the way out. We now have cutsey all-seater Row Q Seat 125 grounds where you can't do anything, and organising to sit with friends is a downright hassle (try getting seats in Brisbane or Adelaide). Flag/banner sizes are being reduced due to litigation issues and the overall product is that sport looks as antiseptic as ever. If you don't believe how sterile things are these days, look at an AFL Grannie from say 1983 odd and now. Or even more so an NRL Grand Final from 1987 (where Manly had over 50 giant flags and unreal support) and the one last year (where supporters of both clubs couldn't even sit together).

My wish is that I simply want the ground to have as much colour and atmosphere as possible. Footy to me is social-I cheer my team on with my friends. I am enjoying my footy so much at the moment because I CAN sit with my friends, without having to book months in advance.

Since 1987 the atmosphere at the SCG has reduced to a point that it almost died. Luckily this year there seems to be a bit more life around the place-still a huge way to go (as Gemma's rant on Yahoogroups indicates).

My argument is that the more unreserved seating we have, the easier it is for those unalligned to get on again. If you disagree and can give good arguments in doing so, go right ahead.

Interestingly, even in the unreserved seats up the back of the hill, the same people sit in the same seats every week. (And whinge at the Cheer Squad when we are quiet without ever doing anything about it )

JF

[penga]

the thing is:

if and when the bandwagoners turn up, and we have a sell out (cant see that happening for ages!) thats when there may be still a few reserved seating spaces not filled... but the unreserved seating comes with membership, so what will happen to these members... u say crammed in, but when they turn up (with the rest of the crowd) everyone will be crammed...

so to scrap the unreserved seating would mean to scrap membership

which means crowd numbers vs guaranteed dollars for the club

which would u prefer...

IMO, they go hand in hand... and there would be a lot of pis.sed off members (me for one obviously) if the unreserved seating gets scrapped, which would again mean less dollars for the club

also, when the crowds rise once again, members if they know that they cant make it will turn their tickets in and the spaces will be filled

dont fix what aint broke... all of your theories doesnt also lead to a better atmosphere, it is passion that leads to a better atmosphere... pis.sed off members doesnt create a better atmosphere

[robbieando]

Penga the best idea would be to lessen the amount of Reserved Seats currently available and make more unreserved seats available.

I would like to see 15,000 Reserved seats and 20,000 Un-reserved Seats with the rest taken up by the SCG Members. That would allow 15,000 of our current 19,000 Sydney based members to have Reserved Seating and of the 20,000 Unreserved Seats a members reserve of the remaining Sydney based members (approx 4,000) is on first in best dressed on match day, so if the rest of the ground (the remaining 16,000 seats) are taken up, the GA Members at least know they can get in. Maybe have 1,000 extra seats in the Members Reserve and make guess passes available so you can bring friends along.

That would leave 15,000 seats for the general public to have access to which is all in one area (The Hill)

No one is saying make the whole ground unreserved, just limit the reserved seats and give members an option of buying a reserved seat or a unreserved seat.

A members buy back hasn't worked since it came into place in 1998, why would it now