Passion and "Ownership" in Footy

[swansrock4eva]

No, it's not a SSI related thread, it's nothing for anyone to go nuts over (i hope!). I've just been thinking after a bit of an argument with my best friend yesterday...

I rang him to say hi and let him know i had survived yet another footy match etc etc and he asks me "did we win?" Maybe it was because i was in a foul mood or something, but that riled me. Not asking about the result itself, but the "we" bit.

Now I know I sound like a lunatic now, but you see, my best friend can't stand the footy. He's been dragged to three matches kicking and screaming and has vowed never to attend again. Then has the audacity to tell me that since he takes a mild interest in how they did, they have become his team and it's not "the swans" or "your lot," it's "we."

For mine, I always refer to the team as "we" because I feel like i've been there so long I'm virtually part of the woodwork these days. They're my team because I stand by them week in, week out and have NEVER jumped ship so far, and I don't plan to either. But in the coming weeks, as more and more people jump on board either again or for the first time, we are going to be hearing more and more "we" from people who still call the ump a "ref," can't work out why the 50m line isn't the middle of the ground and why they call a catch a "mark."

Don't get me wrong, seeing giant crowds back in the SCG and hopefully at stade oz will be awesome and I'm all for it, but there are times where i get really annoyed with people who you KNOW will be gone as soon as we lose 2 in a row telling everyone that the swans are their team and it's a "we" thing, not a "them" thing. I know for mine, just about everyone I work with and go to uni with supports league. I have a vague leaning towards Parra but they are most definitely not my team, and I wouldn't dream of saying "did we win" to my Parra supporting friends because they are far more their team than mine! I always go with "so how'd the eels do?" or something along those lines. I guess for me, it's a bit of a respect thing - I wouldn't dare consider myself a supporter and although I don't want to be, I respect the others for their support so it's THEIR team, not MINE.

Now I know i sound like a crazy psycho freak, but does anyone else find they are getting more possessive of the club as a whole as we realise we were onto the good thing before it was unleashed, and that the rest are probably just going to fall away again when our wheel turns once more (which shouldn't be for a good few years we hope!)?

[Craig]

I agree totally. Nothing irritates me more than bloody people turning up simply because we are winning. They are always the first ones to leave the club in a time of crisis. They all have big mouths and think they know everything and have been following footy for a couple of years.

It's good to get a full house, howver I would rather people there not because it's trendy but because they love and support the swans.

[TheHood]

I remember sitting in the Bradman when Pluggar kicked his record against the Pies and my mate and I were Star gazing. The A list were popping in to see the kick and then they actually left when all the comotion died down. The crowd was big but it was just for the freak show.

Sydney is a fickle city by nature. We've all heard how Sydney loves a winner and drops a loser like a gun. Unless we move the team back to Vic, nothing will ever change, we will always have the fly by nighters.

And YES you are a lunatic... of the nicest variety!

[CureTheSane]

Doesn't worry me at all.

When the Swans win a flag I will get much more out of it than someone who started following them during their premiership year.

Besides, why not gain as many new fans as possible.
Everyone has to start somewhere.
That they say 'we' simply means that they are a bit more committed than some of the other newish supporters IMO

[j s]

Originally posted by TheHood
Sydney is a fickle city by nature. We've all heard how Sydney loves a winner and drops a loser like a gun. Unless we move the team back to Vic, nothing will ever change, we will always have the fly by nighters.

I don't think this is necessarily a fair description. What is true is that the die-hard, converted, core, whatever-term-you use, fans are comparatively small in number in Sydney (but more than pre-96)

Now even in Melbourne, though the core element is much greater than in Sydney the bandwagon still exists. Just look how Bomber attendance swelled during 1999-2001. Look at the Tigers in last few years. Those folks might say they were always fans but they weren't going to games.

You also must remember that just because some people stop attending games does NOT mean they no longer support the team (again, ask those Tiger fans that appeared out of the woodwork)

I can see where Gemma is coming from but the other side of the coin is that now by far the majority of people resident in this city are likely to use the terrm "we" if they ask you about the how the team went. Would they have said this pre-96? If they bothered to ask at all? Is this a BAD thing?

This, IMHO, is the fundamental sea-change that took place in 96. Sydney residents in general, even if they have no real interest in the Swans, or AFL, of football of any kind, or even sport in general will, if asked, identify the Swans as THEIR team.

Again I ask, is this a BAD thing?? How many remember the pre-96 days and what the reponse was likely to be in the office if you mentioned you had been to a Swans game? IMHO this fundamental change in attitude is the reason behind that anonymous (publicly anyway) donation of $250k.

It will probably take another generation (and several more bandwagon periods) before support here resembles that found in the southern states.

To get back to Gemma's point I would much rather someone use the term "we" in a perhaps unjustified sense than use the term "you" in derogatory one.

[liz]

Originally posted by j s

I can see where Gemma is coming from but the other side of the coin is that now by far the majority of people resident in this city are likely to use the terrm "we" if they ask you about the how the team went. Would they have said this pre-96? If they bothered to ask at all? Is this a BAD thing?

This, IMHO, is the fundamental sea-change that took place in 96. Sydney residents in general, even if they have no real interest in the Swans, or AFL, of football of any kind, or even sport in general will, if asked, identify the Swans as THEIR team.

I'm with JS here. I have no problem with it - I actually like the fact that people identify with the team even though they have no real interest. On average I get asked the result of games two or three times on the walk home from Easts Club (where the Swans bus drops me off), barely a 5 minute walk, and I think its kinda good.

Obviously these people will get far less satisfaction than we fanatics when the Swans finally snare that flag but I don't begrudge them whatever pleasure they choose to extract.

[desredandwhite]

I tend to think a little in the opposite direction.

Is ownership of the team something you have to earn? Or is the use of the "we" phrase an acknowledgement of said ownership? I mean, who decides if you are worthy to consider yourself "part of the family"?

Level of passion in support is not an absolute thing IMHO. You don't have to be an absolute fanatic to qualify as a supporter.... I reckon the only person who can decide whether you consider the team to be "your team" is YOURSELF!

I like it when people say "we". It means that they have invested emotionally in the club - and as with actual investing, this can be any amount. You get as much as you put in, but you don't HAVE to put it all in if you don't want to. It's a step in the right direction IMO.

Sport is best when you are emotionally attached to a team. I'll watch almost any sporting event with various degrees of interest, but when MY TEAM is playing, I experience all the highs, and feel all the lows. When I'm out at Parra Stadium, I'm not sitting there thinking "This is my 4th favourite football code, so I'm only going to have 1/4 of the fun I would have at the SCG". No! I'm thinking "Come on Eels, smash 'em!"

If people want to refer to the club as "we"... good on em. Welcome to the family.

[treespirit]

I think CTS got it for me. I will get a lot more out of it than a bandwagoner. I have a membership but I am much more enthusiastic about attending when we are winning.

As a Melbournite I take some very vague satisfaction if the Storm or Titans or Phoenix win (if I happen to notice) even though I wouldn't dream of going to a game.

[neored]

Originally posted by TheHood
I remember sitting in the Bradman when Pluggar kicked his record against the Pies and my mate and I were Star gazing. The A list were popping in to see the kick and then they actually left when all the comotion died down. The crowd was big but it was just for the freak show.

Sydney is a fickle city by nature. We've all heard how Sydney loves a winner and drops a loser like a gun. Unless we move the team back to Vic, nothing will ever change, we will always have the fly by nighters.

And YES you are a lunatic... of the nicest variety!

I cant believe I'm saying this... but I think Sydney is no different to any Victorian team.

Take Collingwood for example, though they've been well supported for over a century their membership a few years ago was at around 28,000. Since making the grand final a magical 12,000 members have appeared out of nowhere.

Its really human nature to want to associate yourself with positive things and distance yourself from negative ones. Obviously Sydney is still building on its core supporter base, these are the people who will go to matches and support the side irregardless of the sides form.

It's been pleasing to see my side mantain its membership at 32,000 despite not being able to mantain its stellar performance level. It'll be interesting to see how many drop off next year if we dont make the finals.

Peoples characters vary, some are just naturally very loyal , whilst others seem to be unable to mantain their loyalty when things go grey. I wouldn't hold it against your friend.

[SWANSBEST]

I think it is human nature for people to associate positively with winners. I watch crowd figures of all the codes and there is a very strong relationship between crowd attendances /passion and a club's performance . eg in Canberra the attendances at the Raiders and Brumbies varies strongly depending on their on field performances and it is not much different with the Swans .

After the Swans recent game at Telstra Stadium I walked down from Town Hall Station to the Quay and about 6 people asked me, how did the Swans go or how did We go ? I was super pleased that someone was even half interested in the Swans . To me it means that WE the Swans have a strong recogition factor in Sydney . There is no point in questioning the motivation for people being interested as that is an elitist attitude . The positive is the interest itself.

Where do you draw the line, Gemma ? For somene like you who is involved in the Swans activities , a passive supporter like myself may be considered by you as an interloper OR someone like me may consider you a Johnny come lately because you have followed the Swans only for a short period . ie ( relative to me )

People's interest / support will wax and wane and that is to be expected.

[Reggi]

More the merrier.

Jump on board I say

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Originally posted by neored
I cant believe I'm saying this... but I think Sydney is no different to any Victorian team.

Its really human nature to want to associate yourself with positive things and distance yourself from negative ones. Obviously Sydney is still building on its core supporter base, these are the people who will go to matches and support the side irregardless of the sides form.

I think there is a quite distinct difference between Melbourne and Sydney sporting culture though mate. When you lose in Melbourne you will still get the respect from the guy in the street for displaying your colours (scarf, cap, etc). They will see the sadness in your face, and respect the fact that you stuck by something you care about, even when it wasn't successful. You travel interstate, wow, that;s awesome. I used to love it when I'd get off the Firefly at Spencer St in my gear, only to get people coming up to me WANTING to chat to me, indirectly supporting my fervour for my team.

In Sydney when your team loses, YOU are automatically a loser. No ifs, no buts, no middle ground. I once got off a bus from Melbourne.People at Central Station scoffed at us in our Swans gear, especially once we had said with pride that we had just travelled for 10 hours JUST to watch them. "What losers" the teenagers thought.

I have interestingly noticed that in Sydney many people only get their scarf out of their bag when they get to the SCG. Or wear a scarf because it is cold rather than as a sign of tribal belongong.

Me, well I wear my colours as soon as I get out the front door, even on away trips to Melbourne etc. I get on the 355 bus and feel a sense of pride in the fact that others are looking at my scarf and registering that I'm proud to display them. I wear my scarf in the airport terminal, win lose or draw. I guess because I'm proud to say that I have made the effort to travel long distances to support my side.

Because Sydney is such a sports-unfriendly city, many people glare at me with a mixture of shock, bemusement, and derision. You see the sniggers on the bus, "Look at that dickhead. Hasn't he got anything better to do?" Do I care, hell no? I'm proud of identifying myself with my team, regardless of whether the others are ignorant or not.

Sure, we are the minority amongst Sydneysiders-we stick it out with our team week-in week-out, and are the hard core of the SCG/Homebush matchday support. Sticking anything out is simply not a Sydney thing to do- people are always brought up with the notion in their minds that there could be something better they could be doing. A typical big city attitude to life.

However most people liken going to a sporting match in Sydney as an outing-comparable to going to the movies, the beach, a fete or fair day. Night matches have taken on the appeal of competing with going to the theatre, seeing a band play or even going out clubbing to a smaller degree. Just as people say "that film was good", the less committed types say "that Swans game was fun". Success builts publicity, and means there is a greater chance that people will leave the stadium happy. Hopefully they'll come again and experience that infectious tribalistic feeling you get from watching a tight AFL match LIVE.

Many of the people who first got the bug in 96 have stayed. Just as those who got into footy during the Edelsten era joined the throng some ten years earlier.

My family have no concept of what my footy club means to me. They never have. They have nothing on which to base it on, being rugby union supporters. These days they accept it in the same way as they bemusedly accept my brother becoming intertwined with the penticostal church- "If it makes you happy and gives you an interest, then that's fine".

They call it obsession. I don't. I call it self-identification. My club, the Sydney Swans, are part of me. Even if at times (ie the off-season or when I lived in Canada for a year) the passion is rested for a while.

JF

[NMWBloods]

I have interestingly noticed that in Sydney many people only get their scarf out of their bag when they get to the SCG. Or wear a scarf because it is cold rather than as a sign of tribal belongong.

Me, well I wear my colours as soon as I get out the front door, even on away trips to Melbourne etc. I get on the 355 bus and feel a sense of pride in the fact that others are looking at my scarf and registering that I'm proud to display them. I wear my scarf in the airport terminal, win lose or draw. I guess because I'm proud to say that I have made the effort to travel long distances to support my side.

You really should have been a Melburnian - you would love regular weekend footy. At the end of the game you see stacks of cars heading home with scarves hanging out of the window, win or lose, and heaps of people walking the streets or on the trains or trams, colours and songs everywhere.

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Originally posted by SWANSBEST
After the Swans recent game at Telstra Stadium I walked down from Town Hall Station to the Quay and about 6 people asked me, how did the Swans go or how did We go ? I was super pleased that someone was even half interested in the Swans . To me it means that WE the Swans have a strong recogition factor in Sydney .

I complain about things as they are now. But looking back at where we've come from definitely gives you a sense of perspective as to how much we ARE a intrensic part of this city now.

These days it is very very rare to be mistaken for a St George supporter. I used to absolutely hate arriving at Central Station and having the guy on the gate yell "Up the Saints", only to get a snarl from me. My scarf said "Swans", my guernsey had no sleeves AND an opera house. But I still got called a St George supporter because of my colours.

I could even handle being abused for being a Swans fan- at least I got noticed and could say "Well, we must have done something right for morons like you to know we exist!". But being mistaken for a Saints fan seriously drove me around the bend!

These days this simply doesn't happen any more. To use an hackneyed cliche, "We've come a loooooooong way baby!" 95% of the time people will not only register that you are a Swans supporter, but give you a bit of a cheer, or ask you how the game went.

Types like Mike Gibson or Ray Chesterton may not want to accept it, but we are a fully accepted part of this city, with a supporter base who seems to enjoy to be rebellious, do something different, be unique in a quirky counter-culture kind of way.

It may take a successful finals series to regain the impetus we had in 1996. But I feel that once we are far closer to that day, both on and off the field, than we have been since we have been in Sydney 1986 & 1996 aside.

JF

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
You really should have been a Melburnian - you would love regular weekend footy. At the end of the game you see stacks of cars heading home with scarves hanging out of the window, win or lose, and heaps of people walking the streets or on the trains or trams, colours and songs everywhere.

Mate, having not missed a game there this year, I'm as much a Melbourne Swans supporter as a Sydney one.

I actually have a lot more fun at Melbourne games than games up here.

You'd have never thought the wish for cheap 11pm pizza would be that addictive! But the Melbourne trips for me are totally CULT!

Hopefully the rather huge Cheer Squad/ RWO brigade coming down for the Carlton match will realise why I keep racking up flights on Virgin every second week.

JF