Why we won't go far in the finals.

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  • RogueSwan
    McVeigh for Brownlow
    • Apr 2003
    • 4602

    Why we won't go far in the finals.

    I think this article points out that we really need to get guys like Hyphen and JM up and running now to become good ruck men over the next couple of years. They don't have to be great, just not get given a bath. Ball, not to take anything away from him, is not one of the premier ruckman but he is good and the swans have won a lot of matches with only a good ruckman and a great ruck rover.


    Posted: Monday, August 11, 2003

    The Ruck's The Thing
    The theory about a ruckman being the most important player in a team has been given some starch in recent weeks.

    It is a view shared by many, with former Carlton, Brisbane and Richmond coach, Robert Walls, leading the public voice of this group.

    It was plain to see at the SCG in round 19, where changing fortunes in Sydney and Hawthorn?s ruck divisions, were a big influence on the result.

    The Hawks won by 17 points in somewhat of an upset, with Peter Everitt one of the best men on the ground for Hawthorn in his return from a hamstring injury.

    Sydney lost its second game in a row since losing Jason Ball to a season ending shoulder injury and his absence was a telling factor.

    The subtleties of football are sometimes hard to pick out in the bustle of the contest but Everitt?s effect on the game at the SCG was clear for anyone to see.

    It was most notable in the second and third quarters when the game changed fortunes a couple of times as Everitt switched from being on the ground to resting on the bench.

    When ?Spider? was on the ground early in the second quarter the Hawks kicked five unanswered goals and in contrast, while he was having a rest in the third quarter, Sydney surged back into contention with a run of five goals.

    Hawthorn coach Peter Schwab brought Everitt back on before three-quartertime and he helped set up a steadying goal to Nick Holland before the final change.

    Saturday night was not only another example of how important Everitt is to Hawthorn but also showed the football world what Sydney fans already knew ? the Swans have not consistently won big games when Ball has been injured.

    Without being unkind to Lewis Roberts-Thompson, a 19-year-old with 11 senior games experience is always going to take his time to mix it with the best big men in the AFL.

    Similarly, Adam Goodes is best used as a pinch-hitting ruckmen with a license to roam around the ground.

    There are big question marks over whether Sydney can beat the best sides in the competition and win finals when Ball is not playing.

    While a number of Swans players have undoubtedly improved this year, it is no coincidence that Sydney?s best season for some time has coincided with the injury-prone Ball staying fit until a fortnight ago.

    The same could be said about West Coast, which has struggled the last couple of weeks without Michael Gardiner due to a knee injury.

    Just as the Hawks looked better with Everitt back in, reigning champions Brisbane?s form surge has coincided with Clark Keating?s return from foot problems.

    Dylan McLaren is a youngster who is a steady fourth ruck option for Leigh Matthews, but the Lions are at their awesome best when they have two of their three key ruckman in top form.

    Keating and Jamie Charman will most likely be the Lions? ruck combination for the rest of the season as Beau McDonald is not expected the be fit to play in the next three weeks, and hence, will not be able to displace the current duo unless there is an injury.

    We can even look at Collingwood, which gets solid service from Steven McKee and Josh Fraser, but this pair has been found out in hit outs against bigger and more skilled ?tap? artists.

    Port Adelaide has done wonderfully well to cope without captain Matthew Primus and, like Brisbane, the Power have been able to find more than on top-liner.

    Dean Brogan had played only one senior game before this year, but the 24-year-old has shown his is more than capable while taking the number one role during the sporadic injuries that have afflicted the Power captain.

    Adelaide gets solid service from Matthew Clarke and Rhett Biglands and the Crows? form speaks for itself.

    Looking at the ladder after round 19, there is a distinct correlation between the teams who have had consistent top-line service and depth in the ruck and those who haven?t.
    "Fortunately, this is the internet, so knowing nothing is no obstacle to having an opinion!." Beerman 18-07-2017
  • Swansinger
    Senior Player
    • Mar 2003
    • 1099

    #2
    As I said when Jason got injured , we miss him for his general play as much as his ruckwork.

    What constitutes a good ruckman ?
    Certainly not just "hitout" stats , otherwise the article would be raving about Jeff White.
    Is Luke Darcy a good ruckman ?
    Yes , but his team is going nowhere.

    For my money , the best I've seen this year has been Clarke.
    Doesn't just get his hand on the ball , but also very good at finding his teammates.

    So if we can't have a dominant ruckman , we have to expect the onballers to continue to work that bit harder to compensate.
    "It's us little blokes who make you big blokes look good"-quite right , Lou Richards.

    I do not think missing a big ruckman ncessarily means we will flop in the finals.

    Comment

    • TheHood
      On the Rookie List
      • Jan 2003
      • 1938

      #3
      This thread has a negative title but I will forgive you anyway.

      The 3 best ruckmen in the comp are:

      Gardiner
      Everitt
      Keating

      All of these guys can do the tap work well, punch work well and get heaps of the nut and kick goals.

      All 3 are strong and use their size to maximum capacity, particularly Keating who is a personal favourite of mine.

      Everytime these big men go down injured I feel for their supporters because these guys tend to be near impossible to replace. Take a look at their respective form when these guys are not on the track.
      The Pain of Discipline is Nothing Like The Pain of Disappointment

      Comment

      • Mark
        Suspended by the MRP
        • Jan 2003
        • 578

        #4
        Good theory but does not explain why S&don have been so good over the years with very little ruck talent.

        You can always pick out a few examples of anything

        Good ruckmen are generally only as good as the midfield playing with them.

        Comment

        • RogueSwan
          McVeigh for Brownlow
          • Apr 2003
          • 4602

          #5
          I suppose what I (the article)was trying to say was that if you look at the teams that are real premiership contenders Power, Crows and the Lions (no one out there really thinks the Pies will get there again do they?) they do have good ruck combinations but as long as Goodes, LRT,Mieklejohn and dare I say Doyle don't get given a lesson the Swans will be ready to win anything, otherwise we look to next year.
          I would love to be proven wrong, and the loss on Ball is just a slight hiccup.
          "Fortunately, this is the internet, so knowing nothing is no obstacle to having an opinion!." Beerman 18-07-2017

          Comment

          • Rizzo
            On the Rookie List
            • Jan 2003
            • 655

            #6
            Keating was fantastic against the Pies but more in general play than at the stoppages

            Comment

            • TheHood
              On the Rookie List
              • Jan 2003
              • 1938

              #7
              Originally posted by Mark
              Good theory but does not explain why S&don have been so good over the years with very little ruck talent.

              You can always pick out a few examples of anything

              Good ruckmen are generally only as good as the midfield playing with them.
              Take a closer look Mark, give one Premiership side since 1990 that had a defunct/retarded ruckman/combo?

              From Monkey to Crackers, all of these premiership teams had a champion ruckman/combo.

              Even in 2000, Barnsy and Ses were great, particularly Barnsy who I thought was one of the best in the comp if not the best that year. Their opposition that year was White and Simmons who both had stella seasons.

              I challenge anyone to name a year a ruck combination that was so crap yet the side managed to take a flag??
              The Pain of Discipline is Nothing Like The Pain of Disappointment

              Comment

              • Steve
                Regular in the Side
                • Jan 2003
                • 676

                #8
                IIRC in '97 Pathetic Pittman and Aaron Keating were backup to Rehn.

                So technically, even taking into account the tremendous skill of Shaun Rehn at his peak, that combo was a fairly average one for a premiership side.

                Comment

                • TheHood
                  On the Rookie List
                  • Jan 2003
                  • 1938

                  #9
                  Rubbish! Rehn was the best in the comp that year.
                  The Pain of Discipline is Nothing Like The Pain of Disappointment

                  Comment

                  • daniel forscutt
                    On the Rookie List
                    • Aug 2003
                    • 314

                    #10
                    i think your wrong

                    the swans have anounced that stephen doyle is training with the senior group today[15/8/03]and that he is a likely starter against the pies next week.with doyley as our number one ruckman if jame miecklejohn can pla a decent 5 minutes in each quarter,then we have the hyphen released to roam in between chf and chb,and lets not forget the most mobile big man in the comp adam goodes who i dont think is a ruckmans u know what.with goodes,the hyphen,jm and doyle all available it will stretch any sides defence especially when they have to find an opponent for goodes after having found one for the 2 or 3 other swans big men on the ground.now i notice u said after 1990 who has won a flag without a good ruck combo,lets just go back a nd look at the hawks dominant side of the late 80s,who were there ruckman,was it greg dear good honest player but by no means a match winner,who else did they have michael byrne who later came to the swans and played about half a season and finished his career because of injuries and poor form.as soon as i saw your comment about after 1990 i clued on that u too must remember the hawks had a measly ruck setup,or with no offence intended did u not start following the swans till then ,and just a last general message to all swans supporters in sydney i hope the club makes u aware of the great 90-100 year history the club has in melbourne,and how every time the swans play in melb there is just as many swans supporters a s the opposition if not more thanks go the mighty bloods
                    daniel f

                    Comment

                    • Stuffed Duck
                      On the Rookie List
                      • Aug 2003
                      • 3

                      #11
                      the best 3 Ruckmen
                      Gardiner
                      Darcy
                      Primus

                      No way keating or everitte are in the best 3.

                      Comment

                      • gloveski
                        Senior Player
                        • Jan 2003
                        • 1018

                        #12
                        Don't forget steven King

                        My best 3 are

                        Gardiner
                        Primus
                        King

                        Comment

                        • TheHood
                          On the Rookie List
                          • Jan 2003
                          • 1938

                          #13
                          The Dear arument is an age old one. The Hawks supporters of the era that I talk to have no doubts about their indebtedness to Deary. He consistently delivered well to the midfield of the century.

                          As for you Mr Fluffy Duck, Primus and Darcy are having their worst seasons in years due to a rule change, they have both been shown up as one dimensional ruckmen. I am a big fan of Luke's but he has disappointed this year with one decent game under his belt.

                          As of this day, Crackers, Spider and Gardiner have been the best running around this year, closely followed by Brogan IMO. The best combo has been the Adelaide mob.
                          The Pain of Discipline is Nothing Like The Pain of Disappointment

                          Comment

                          • Steve
                            Regular in the Side
                            • Jan 2003
                            • 676

                            #14
                            It's a big call to say Keating is one of the ruckmen of the year having played 5 games.

                            BTW I don't recall saying Rehn wasn't one of the best individual ruckmen in 1997.

                            Comment

                            • penga
                              Senior Player
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 2601

                              #15
                              biglands convinced me on fri night that he definitely is not a one trick pony... chasing and tackling, moving to chb and doing a pretty good job... i think he would have to be up there with the best ruckman this season argument
                              C'mon Chels!

                              Comment

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