How we got it wrong

[liz]

Just chanced upon the following thread, from March just after we'd been thrashed by Carlton in a pre-season game. For once its great to read just how wrong some of us (especially me!) got things - particularly Goodes' prospects in the ruck!

http://65.108.81.213/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=381&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

[TheHood]

Must have missed that week

[Craig]

Can I boast that I was on the money with Goodes in the ruck and Doyal being a dud who is always injured.

[Nico]

Yes I remember all the pessimism at the time.

I recall there were a few of us who dismissed it as purely a practice match.

I said something like. "hang on to hats folks and get aboard for an exciting season". I admit at times early on I thought I was being too optimistic, but for once my optimism was on the mark.

[Sid]

I remember someone saying that Doyle is still young. This is very true. He has missed a lot of action with that injury so you cant really blame him. Have you forgotten how well he played in that first game against carlton?

[timbo]

no room for doyle the doofus, delist him

[Plugger46]

Originally posted by Craig
Can I boast that I was on the money with Goodes in the ruck and Doyal being a dud who is always injured.

"Doyle" is not a 'dud' mate.

[NMWBloods]

At least that wasn't one of my really pessimistic threads!! Just cautionary comments

[Reggi]

Interesting that the All Australian "Ruckman" - and I use that term loosely - as they did, was 18th in the competition for hitouts - and had less hit -outs than Sydney's fulltime ruckman Jason Ball.

Strange but true

[NMWBloods]

As I've said before, hitouts are just about the most meaningless stat in football.

[Reggi]

Having sat through heaps of live finals - I can say definitively that from here on ruckman mean everything.

Hit - outs per se may not mean much - but when it is hard and congested around stoppages - effective hit outs mean everything.

In most finals I have seen - dominance by the ruckman has generally lead to winning or losing.

In truth Goodes isn't a top tap ruckman - he is a very good ruck rover when the ball hits the deck

[Scottee]

Having sat through heaps of live finals - I can say definitively that from here on ruckman mean everything.

Agree with everything you have said Reggi. Probably nothing more important than at least breaking even in the ruck.

I think that it was most evident that Goodes winning in the ruck against Port was the main factor in us winning the game.Especialy seeing as Brogan's dominance thyis year has been a major factor in Port's good season.

What I hadn't expected was Goodesy's ability to lift for the big occasion because that was by far his best performance in the ruck all year.

Obviously Brisbane will be looking to counter this dominance and will have special plans to nullify him.This makes it important that we have either a fit Doyle or MJ in the side to at least contest. I thought MJ did a fair job against Brisbane last time and his mobility and ability to get to the contest at the moment would probably put him ahead of Doyle(who, by the way when fit will be a great bonus for the side).

The other factor in the Port game was the improved rucking by LRT, he seems to have been getting some good coaching and also seems to be able to lift for the big occasion.

Throwing Hall into the ruck was also a bonus because he is definitley a class ruckman.

Actually , I think Iv'e talked myself into beleiving we are a really good chance to win the rucking against Brisbane.

Go Swannies!!!

[Cheer Cheer]

So much for Scott Stevens being the rising star

[scurrilous]

Originally posted by Craig
Can I boast that I was on the money with Goodes in the ruck and Doyal being a dud who is always injured.

And I'd like to iterate my support for the direction the swans were heading by not replying in the thread

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Reggi
Having sat through heaps of live finals - I can say definitively that from here on ruckman mean everything.

Hit - outs per se may not mean much - but when it is hard and congested around stoppages - effective hit outs mean everything.

In most finals I have seen - dominance by the ruckman has generally lead to winning or losing.

In truth Goodes isn't a top tap ruckman - he is a very good ruck rover when the ball hits the deck

And hence my point as to why hit outs are a meaningless stat!!

What is important is clearances, not hit outs. There are remarkably few effective hit outs in a game. Generally the aim of a ruckman at ball ups is to ensure the opponent does not have an easy ride so as to deliver the ball effectively to the midfielders.

I've seen plenty of games (finals included) where the team with the "dominant" ruckman did not win. For example Port Adelaide last year, Melbourne in the 2000 GF , Hawthorn against Essendon in the 1983 GF, Carlton in the 1999 GF...