Very quiet trading period for the Swans methinks..

[bandwagon]

This is a quote from Ricky Barham in today's Age (sorry, don't know how to do links):

Ricky Barham (Sydney)
"I'm probably only looking at it from our point of view. We'll only use three picks so we won't get past the 50s. It's OK until then. I don't think the pool's as strong as it has been in the past. There's a couple of really talented kids up the top; it just doesn't bat down very far."

THREE PICKS? So with Cresswell and McPherson already gone, and a spare spot on the list, we may not see any more changes to the list until draft day. Mmmm.

[Reggi]

There were a couple of points in today's paper - which was interesting.


Most clubs have desparate needs until you get to Sydney the "Roos has such a good young list he would want to do little with it" - mentioned that other clubs were chasing Saddington

Ricky Nixon said he expected this to be the most active trading period ever.

The less trading the better IMHO

[CureTheSane]

Was Ricky talking solely about the DRAFT?

Or was his comment made in the context of the draft and thades?

2 different things.

In fact you could take it to mean the we may be on trading any later picks we have in the draft if possible.

[liz]

Re: Very quiet trading period for the Swans methinks..

Originally posted by bandwagon

THREE PICKS? So with Cresswell and McPherson already gone, and a spare spot on the list, we may not see any more changes to the list until draft day. Mmmm.

Depends on the rookie list situation. There are several players who might be a chance to get a senior list spot:

James - if they believe his body will hold out
McGlone - if he doesn't get a spot I think he'll probably nominate for the draft
Meiklejohn - though keeping him on the rookie list might be an option

Elevating a couple of these could certainly be on the cards, meaning two more current players to leave.

[monopoly19]

Could someone please explain the rookie list to me? Is there an age or time limit that you can be on it? Why have them on the rookie list at all if they can still play seniors football (James, Meiklejohn) - why not just have one big list? Do they get paid?

I've never understood the concept of a rookie list - any help would be greatly appreciated

[liz]

Originally posted by monopoly19
Could someone please explain the rookie list to me? Is there an age or time limit that you can be on it? Why have them on the rookie list at all if they can still play seniors football (James, Meiklejohn) - why not just have one big list? Do they get paid?

I've never understood the concept of a rookie list - any help would be greatly appreciated

LOL - the rules seem to change a bit each year so confusion is understandable. I don't know all the ins-and-outs but I'll have a go...

There is an age limit - I think you have to be under 23 at the beginning of the year.

In general, a rookie-listed player can only play senior footy if another player is put on the long-term injury list (which means they must be out for at least 10 weeks, IIRC). However, with clubs going into the season with shortened senior lists, there are sometimes opportunities for rookies to get promoted to fill one of these spots. The AFL seems to be trying to crack down on this, however, with a minimum list size of 37 from next year.

Rookies get paid less than senior players (ie new draftees) and their salaries are excluded from the salary cap, at least while they're not playing senior footy. Not sure what happens if they get elevated - my guess is that their match payments need to be included within the cap.

With the way the rookie list has evolved, it is a good question as to whether there is really much difference to having the old style 44 player lists. I guess the big difference is that the rookie system encourages clubs to give those marginal list positions to youngsters, and to take a risk on those that might not otherwise get a chance (eg the Kennellys of this world) whereas the old style list maybe allowed the club to keep older players for a bit longer.

Not entirely sure about time limits on the rookie list. I think it used to be the case that if you drafted a rookie from interstate you had to guarantee them at least 2 years on the list to make it worth their while moving. Not sure if this is still the case.

In most cases clubs will probably have a reasonable idea within a couple of years, although you do see players who are struggling for one reason or another go onto rookie lists after spending time on a senior list (eg James, Bennett, Brockman, Ricky O'Loughlin from the Swans' recent history).

With a player like McGlone, who has been on the Swans' rookie list for a couple of years, his goal must be to get onto a senior list somewhere. He was considered unlucky by some not to get drafted and has put in consistently good performances in the reserves for a couple of years. If he's going to get onto a senior list, whether at Sydney or elsewhere, this is probably his best chance of doing so. Hence I'd expect him to nominate for the draft if he doesn't get picked up by the Swans as an automatic promotion.

[Bas]

Rookies can stay on the rookie list for 2 years. After this time they must be promoted to the senior list or let go.

They are allowed to play in trial games along with senior players but to play during the H&A season, a player on the senior list must be delisted or placed on long term injury list.

If a club has not lisetd a veteran, it may nominate two rookies no later than March 19, who will then be eligible for senior selection for the remainder of the year.

This year Sydney had 6 rookies. McGlone from previous year plus the irish fellow and 4 others. Next year MCGlone & James must be promoted to senior list or released.

I think the cut off is 23 yrs of age.

Thanks Liz for the other info, you just beat me to the post. Rookies cost the club far less than a junior senior list player.

[monopoly19]

Thanks very much for your comprehensive explanations, Lizz and Bas. I'm understanding much better now!

[Roscoe]

Barham said we will only have 3 picks.

I reckon we will promote 2 from the rookie list, probably James and McGlone. i think MJ will stay as a rookie with Bevan and
Crawford.

Sounds pretty fair to me.

Cressa and Fosty are gone, do we have to delist 1 more

Warfe/Seymour/Buchanan

[monopoly19]

Another question - is there a separate draft for rookies? If we use 3 draft picks, will all of those players go onto our seniors list?

Also, is there a minimum player turnover (do you have to provide anyone for the draft)?


Don't worry, I'm running out of questions!

[Bleed Red Blood]

Im sorry I cant answer your questions but I would like to comment on this - when I saw this article this morning I wondered what we would do with the rest of the selections I have seen in the paper a list of players selected by Sydney eg pick 80 would have pass next to it and I wondered if this year we could trade all our selections from 50 up to a rebuilding club like Carlton or the Bulldogs for 1 or two lower picks is this possible?

[chammond]

Another question - is there a separate draft for rookies?

Yes, Tuesday December 16

If we use 3 draft picks, will all of those players go onto our seniors list?

Draftees from the National AFL Draft on November 23 and the National AFL Pre-Season Draft on December 16 all go onto the senior list

Also, is there a minimum player turnover

Yes, must take at least 3 picks in the National Draft

do you have to provide anyone for the draft

No

Cressa and Fosty are gone, do we have to delist 1 more

By my calculation, if we promote James and McGlone to the senior list we have to clear out two more players (after Cresswell and McPherson) to allow the min 3 picks in the National Draft.

[liz]

Originally posted by Bleed Red Blood
I wondered if this year we could trade all our selections from 50 up to a rebuilding club like Carlton or the Bulldogs for 1 or two lower picks is this possible?

Nice idea - we give Carlton our 3rd, 4th and 5th round picks in exchange for the number 2 pick!

Somehow I don't think Carlton would go for that. There is no limit to the number of picks a club can have, other than their list size. So if Carlton need to draft 10 or so players they can do so - they just keep picking after everyone else has finished. All they would gain from getting our picks would be a slight elevation in the order but the value they get from that would be nowhere near the value of the no 2 pick.

[chammond]

Carlton are so deep in the mire it will take them a decade to recover. How they can imagine that they will solve anything by bulk delistings is a mystery - they certainly won't get much from the draft.

In fact they've already been through a similar process before. In 1999 they cleared out their list and were still making draft picks after everyone else had packed up and gone home. Sydney was criticised that year for wasting time by taking Allison at pick 70, but Carlton had six more picks after that, most of whom proved to be duds.

[monopoly19]

Originally posted by chammond

Draftees from the National AFL Draft on November 23 and the National AFL Pre-Season Draft on December 16 all go onto the senior list

Firstly, thankyou.

Secondly, is the Pre-Season Draft on December 16th the Rookie Draft, or are there two different drafts on the same day? If they are the same thing, then why would people from the Rookie Draft go straight onto the seniors list if they're rookies?

I think I may have just completely misinterpreted what you meant and confused myself further...if so, just ignore me

By my calculation, if we promote James and McGlone to the senior list we have to clear out two more players (after Cresswell and McPherson) to allow the min 3 picks in the National Draft.

So in 2003 we had 37 on the senior list, and 6 on the rookie list. Minus Cresswell and MacPherson, but promote 2 rookies and we again have the minimum of 37. If we have to take at least three from the draft, we could take two rookies (yeah?) and then another senior player? I know 37 is the minimum, but is there a maximum? Couldn't we just have 38/39, or would that put too much strain on the salary cap?

I lied when I said I was running out of questions!