Melbourne Based Members/Supporters

[DST]

One problem with the value for money issue on membership discussion that has been over looked so far.

If you don't buy a membership in Melbourne and rock up to the games then that money goes to the club we are playing.

If you buy a Sydney Melbourne based membership then the money goes to our club

If it is true that only 25% of Sydney supporters attending games in Melbourne are members then we need to communicate this somehow to these supporters that a membership while not saving you money at least goes to the club.

Maybe the banner at our first game in Melbourne next year could be devoted to this.

DST

[swansrock4eva]

Originally posted by Charlie
Gem - am I right in thinking that the Bulldogs and Kangas games weren't included in memberships in 2002? If that's the case, then you're membership actually covered one more game this year.

In 2002 and 2003 we had the option of taking the Bulldogs game as a 12th match and paying for it, and when the kangas were up here, we originally had to pay separately for it, but then later on it became another optional game iirc (someone feel free to correct me if i'm wrong!). Now, if we want to go to Canberra, we have to pay separately for our ticket, as you do with all away games not included in the membership (i.e. the other nine). So in actual fact from 2002-2003 I think our membership comparatively went UP rather than DOWN because we lost the Roos match.

And Peter, I SO completely agree with you about the seating and membership packages in general! I know we've had this debate before on here, but there REALLY has to be a reduction in reserved seating if we want to get new people coming in, which they will want to in 2004.

[Reggi]

Gotta say - I do but for Melb based members it is difficult to justify a membership for 5 games. It isn't that long ago that we had 7 - 8.

Why is it that the comp is rigged so that Collingwood pulls crowds and not for us? When of all the non-Victorian teams we easily pull the biggest crowds in Melb?

It's playing us in locations like Canberra that is annoying.

Only 12,000 or so fit in and that would easily be the away numbers of Victorian based Swans' supporters.

[Charlie]

Originally posted by Reggi
Gotta say - I do but for Melb based members it is difficult to justify a membership for 5 games. It isn't that long ago that we had 7 - 8.

Why is it that the comp is rigged so that Collingwood pulls crowds and not for us? When of all the non-Victorian teams we easily pull the biggest crowds in Melb?

It's playing us in locations like Canberra that is annoying.

Only 12,000 or so fit in and that would easily be the away numbers of Victorian based Swans' supporters.

Reggi - all of this hits the nail on the head. Quite simply, there is no benefit in a Vic-based membership other than the probably small profit that the club makes. If you're not in the cheer squad, you're generally still in the general admission section anyway!

We are not asking for the draw to favour Sydney any more than it does Collingwood. Collingwood gets seven AWAY games in Melbourne... EVERY SINGLE YEAR, WITHOUT FAIL! Why? Because special little Collingwood ask for it! Now, why can't we also ask for seven away games in Melbourne? If it means we lose the Bulldogs game, so be it.

There is no fair reason to play us in Canberra. North wants us there because they believe that people are more likely to come from Sydney for the match than other states, and that is probably true. But isn't the idea of playing in Canberra to promote the game in a market where it isn't established? So WHAT does padding the crowd up with REGULAR footy fans from Sydney actually achieve? It doesn't grow the game, it just gives the Roos a reasonable crowd. Well, excuse me, but when did Sydney become more concerned with propping up the Kangaroos than it did with providing games to its OWN SUPPORTERS?

The club claims that only 1 in 4 people who come to Swans games in Melbourne to cheer on the red and white are members. That means there's somewhere between 10,000 and 12,000 people who care enough to come to matches, but simply don't see the value in a membership. Do people realise what this means? IF the AFL and the club put some effort into Melbourne, we could potentially have nearly as many members in a SECONDARY MARKET than the Bulldogs, who have less than 20,000 in their home town!!!

There is no logical reason for this contempt for Sydney supporters in Melbourne. This supporter base is a gold mine that is being left in the ground because someone doesn't want to put the hard work in digging the hole. Disgraceful. And people wonder why our club is nearly broke?

[treespirit]

I doubt I'll get a membership next year. The last few years I have missed at least one game as a result of family activities and I don't go to Geelong for the same reason (it's well over 2 hours each way from my place). That's 2 out of 5 games missed. I have gladly "donated" these games to the club so far, but I can't afford it any more.

It also pisses me off that one of our games is always at Optus ****hole.

[Rob-bloods]

Lea at the Swans said they ran a survey and found (I seem to recall) that the disparate draw and playing at various venues deterred fans from joining. We have spoken at length in other threads about having to pay for a seat at Optus/Shell WITH a membership, so there is very little incentive to join in Melbne for financial reasons except to support your club!

What do we do? Not join because you don't like the coach, the draw, the socks.......no you join because you support your team!

Yes, let's have a voice with the club, let's tell them what we don't like, let's tell them what we want, but remember when they walk out on the park they are the Swans....and they are all we have.

Added incentive surely, to rub the noses of the "big clubs" who think they are god's gift to the Premiership and skite about their 'loyal' fans!

And a positive footnote....nice to see the Pies lose again!

[swansrock4eva]

Originally posted by Charlie
There is no fair reason to play us in Canberra. North wants us there because they believe that people are more likely to come from Sydney for the match than other states, and that is probably true. But isn't the idea of playing in Canberra to promote the game in a market where it isn't established? So WHAT does padding the crowd up with REGULAR footy fans from Sydney actually achieve? It doesn't grow the game, it just gives the Roos a reasonable crowd. Well, excuse me, but when did Sydney become more concerned with propping up the Kangaroos than it did with providing games to its OWN SUPPORTERS?

Charlie, There's probably no point in flogging this dead horse with you but for some reason I am going to do it anyway. In all honesty you sound quite simply like your typical Eastern Sydney yuppie - "me me me." There is a VERY fair reason for us playing in Canberra - it's called keeping the AFL stable until such a time as the TV rights can be renegotiated and the league can come up with a suitable relocation/merger deal to reduce the number of Melbourne-based clubs. If giving the Roos a sellout in Canberra by playing the Swans and stacking it with 8000 swans fans, then so be it. By doing so, it can, and currently IS, setting up lasting sponsorship deals for the Roos, and is also establishing an AFL presence in a strong local Aussie Rules area. Given that this could assure the Roos of viability in the coming decades and also help to maintain the relative stability the AFL seems to possess (when compared to other codes), then we HAVE to support it because every club and every club's supporters should be looking long-term to ensure they don't end up like the South supporters of the early 80's, the Fitzroy supporters in '96 and almost the Demons and Hawks supporters at the same time - without a club and without a leg to stand on due to lack of forethought and planning. Yes, there are a lot of R&W supporters in Victoria, but the simple fact is that to the AFL, they are another group of interstate followers of one team or another and even though that may hurt, that is the reality of it now.

I don't think anyone disagrees that the current setup of the AFL needs a major overhaul, but right now it's the best that we have and unless you want to turn your back on the game and the club, it's what you have to deal with.

[Charlie]

Originally posted by swansrock4eva
Charlie, There's probably no point in flogging this dead horse with you but for some reason I am going to do it anyway. In all honesty you sound quite simply like your typical Eastern Sydney yuppie - "me me me."

What exactly is wrong with me wanting to see the Swans play in Melbourne a fair number of times? You seem to be saying that I'm being selfish in wanting a PROPORTIONATE number of games here. Two thirds of the other clubs are from Victoria, and two thirds of the 11 away games works out to be 7.26 - you can round that off to 7. Even keeping the game against the Bulldogs, two thirds of 10 games is 6.66 - again you can round off to 7. So tell me, what's unfair about what I'm asking for? I honestly don't care if people in Sydney see me as selfish - they've got a lot to complain about, don't they? Sydney memberships with 12 games attached are so expensive. But you know what? I'd gladly pay double. It would work out several hundred dollars cheaper than what it cost me to go to 8 this year. So don't complain to me that I'm selfish.

There is a VERY fair reason for us playing in Canberra - it's called keeping the AFL stable until such a time as the TV rights can be renegotiated and the league can come up with a suitable relocation/merger deal to reduce the number of Melbourne-based clubs. If giving the Roos a sellout in Canberra by playing the Swans and stacking it with 8000 swans fans, then so be it. By doing so, it can, and currently IS, setting up lasting sponsorship deals for the Roos, and is also establishing an AFL presence in a strong local Aussie Rules area.

Ok - you obviously don't know that the Kangaroos have their games in Canberra gauranteed by the ACT government - they could play in front of 2 men and a dog and still make a profit. They have absolutely no reason to need a sellout, other than to look pretty on TV. And if they can't get a sellout crowd, so what? It's the Kangaroos' problem, NOT OURS! I expect the Swans to care more about their own fans than the Kangaroos.

Given that this could assure the Roos of viability in the coming decades and also help to maintain the relative stability the AFL seems to possess (when compared to other codes), then we HAVE to support it because every club and every club's supporters should be looking long-term to ensure they don't end up like the South supporters of the early 80's, the Fitzroy supporters in '96 and almost the Demons and Hawks supporters at the same time - without a club and without a leg to stand on due to lack of forethought and planning. Yes, there are a lot of R&W supporters in Victoria, but the simple fact is that to the AFL, they are another group of interstate followers of one team or another and even though that may hurt, that is the reality of it now.

Wrong. We DON'T have to support it. The Swans should be looking after their own fans first. We're not exactly economic powerhouses ourselves, you know. The "simple fact" of the AFL's indifference is what is the problem! Oh... sorry... I forgot. It doesn't matter if the Swans have a potential goldmine in Victoria that could add $millions to their coffers... we need to give the Roos a pretty crowd for TV. Excuse me whilst I throw up.

I don't think anyone disagrees that the current setup of the AFL needs a major overhaul, but right now it's the best that we have and unless you want to turn your back on the game and the club, it's what you have to deal with.

BUT IT'S NOT THE BEST WE'VE GOT!!! The best we've got is SEVEN games!! We haven't had that in the last 7 fixtures now!! Why is it that other clubs can have 7 games in a year, but not the Swans? WHY?

I'm getting real fed up with people in NSW telling us to "deal with it". Why don't you come here for a year and see how you like it Gem? And don't give me your importance bull****. It doesn't cut it. Not twice in a row it doesn't.

I don't want to turn my back on the club or the game. But it sure as hell feels like the club and the game have turned their back on me. You can give me your crap about dealing with it all you like - it doesn't change the fact that we are being ignored, while Sydney people are planning a little day trip to Canberra so that they can have nearly 3 times as many games as we get. Enjoy your trip.

[anne]

Good on you Charlie. You are just saying, very eloquently, all the things I, and probably many other Melbourne based supporters, feel. Make sure you let Tony Morwood know as well.

[swansrock4eva]

Charlie, AGAIN you are missing the point - in SYDNEY, the HOME TOWN of the Swans, we do get 12 games by right. Every home team has 11 games scheduled as home, and each of the other 5 get a "derby" match to give them 12. Right now our "derby" is against the Bulldogs but to be honest if we lose that up here, provided memberships don't go up and there is some sort of balancing out so that we are not the single most travelled team in the country so be it.

Regarding the Kangaroos though, that isn't about NOW - it's about THE FUTURE. If they have any chance of surviving outside Melbourne, they would do well to try to charm the people of Canberra, given that they have no hope as Sydney's second team after the botched attempts of years gone by. But the most important thing is to try to consolidate NOW while they have guaranteed support from the ACT government, because if they can show the Canberra people they are the real deal, they have a real chance of being able to make it AFTER the subsidies stop. And if giving them a sellout game doesn't help them build up a public reputation, then nothing will, and they are done for.

As has already been stated, the club DID ask for more games in Melbourne, and were denied by the AFL - don't blame the club because short of boycotting, what else can be done given the competition's current structure? No-one is denying it is unfair, myself included, but at the moment it has to be dealt with in some way and jumping up and down and saying you've been betrayed by the club IS NOT the way. By all means, get in touch with the Swans' membership in Melbourne and Sydney, get in touch with Tony Morwood, get in touch with Myles Baron-Hay, as he asked us at the B&F to do - let them know how displeased you are with the AUSTRALIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE'S decisions, but do not hold the club responsible for something they do seem to be trying very hard to change. Give the club potential solutions for getting people on board that works WITH the current lack of games in Melbourne, do things that will make the AFL really stand up and take notice so that they CAN'T be indifferent about Swans' fans in Melbourne. Standing there whining won't achieve anything, as has already been proven with the signed, sealed and delivered 2004 draw, after we had the same argument last year.

[liz]

Originally posted by Charlie
Collingwood gets seven AWAY games in Melbourne... EVERY SINGLE YEAR, WITHOUT FAIL! Why? Because special little Collingwood ask for it! Now, why can't we also ask for seven away games in Melbourne? If it means we lose the Bulldogs game, so be it.

It's not quite as straightforward as that - sure Collingwood are, no doubt, very happy to be playing so many away games in Melbourne. But they are helped by the fact that all the other Melbourne clubs are clamouring to play home games against them for financial reasons. Dollars talk!

[CureTheSane]

53% of Collingwoods opposition are Victorian teams
They play 63% of their away games in Victoria if they play 7 games there
They play 54% of their away games in Victoria if they play 6 games there

So really that's an advantage of only one extra game.

Considering we have an 'away' game at the SCG and also one at Manuka, it's hard to compain about Collingwood, as much as I'd like to lol

[Charlie]

Originally posted by swansrock4eva
Charlie, AGAIN you are missing the point - in SYDNEY, the HOME TOWN of the Swans, we do get 12 games by right. Every home team has 11 games scheduled as home, and each of the other 5 get a "derby" match to give them 12. Right now our "derby" is against the Bulldogs but to be honest if we lose that up here, provided memberships don't go up and there is some sort of balancing out so that we are not the single most travelled team in the country so be it.

I realise all this. But it's hypocritical for the club to point at a little request halfway down their wishlist for an extra game in Melbourne and say that they did their best, whilst they also agree to finance the Bulldogs. I don't care, personally, whether 7 games means that the Bulldogs game returns to Victoria or not. It's a simple fact that Sydney have to travel a lot - and it doesn't hurt us that badly, considering we won 6 of 11 games on the road in 2003. Would one extra trip really make that much difference? I think not.

Regarding the Kangaroos though, that isn't about NOW - it's about THE FUTURE. If they have any chance of surviving outside Melbourne, they would do well to try to charm the people of Canberra, given that they have no hope as Sydney's second team after the botched attempts of years gone by. But the most important thing is to try to consolidate NOW while they have guaranteed support from the ACT government, because if they can show the Canberra people they are the real deal, they have a real chance of being able to make it AFTER the subsidies stop. And if giving them a sellout game doesn't help them build up a public reputation, then nothing will, and they are done for.

Ok, now explain to me why it has to be the Swans going down there to do it? If the Kangaroos can't sell out a 12,000 seat ground without having several thousand blow-ins from Sydney, then the project isn't viable, and they need to look elsewhere. Quite simply, having the Swans game there is merely papering over cracks in the plan - ie, it isn't viable to run a club in Canberra.

As has already been stated, the club DID ask for more games in
Melbourne, and were denied by the AFL - don't blame the club because short of boycotting, what else can be done given the competition's current structure?

See comment above.

No-one is denying it is unfair, myself included, but at the moment it has to be dealt with in some way and jumping up and down and saying you've been betrayed by the club IS NOT the way. By all means, get in touch with the Swans' membership in Melbourne and Sydney, get in touch with Tony Morwood, get in touch with Myles Baron-Hay, as he asked us at the B&F to do - let them know how displeased you are with the AUSTRALIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE'S decisions, but do not hold the club responsible for something they do seem to be trying very hard to change. Give the club potential solutions for getting people on board that works WITH the current lack of games in Melbourne, do things that will make the AFL really stand up and take notice so that they CAN'T be indifferent about Swans' fans in Melbourne. Standing there whining won't achieve anything, as has already been proven with the signed, sealed and delivered 2004 draw, after we had the same argument last year.

And what, prey tell, will sending off a PC e-mail to Tony Morwood actually do? I'll get back some diplomatic reply saying "We are sorry about the lack of games in Melbourne, and we really are trying to fix it at some point in the future. We did ask but we didn't get it, and the tradeoff for that is that we get an extra game in the NSW/ACT area. We hope that this will not affect your decision as to whether to purchase a membership in 2004".

Now, WHAT good will that do? After that e-mail, that will be the end of it, and the matter will be forgotten. Gem, we tried all the "nice and constructive methods" last year. LOOK WHERE THAT GOT US!

You say solutions, TELL ME, what is the solution? The OBVIOUS solution is to ditch Canberra. But you even reject that. Do you have another one? Or do we just need to "deal with it". Tell me what we should do that will actually get something done. Because sending off a PC e-mail that is answered by someone's secretary doesn't sound all that promising... in fact, I reckon I'm more likely to be noticed here on RWO.

[Charlie]

Originally posted by CureTheSane



Considering we have an 'away' game at the SCG and also one at Manuka, it's hard to compain about Collingwood, as much as I'd like to lol

All I want is the same treatment with the draw in regards to games in Melbourne that Collingwood and Essendon get. Nothing more, nothing less.

[CureTheSane]

I don't know Charlie.

You seem to be torn between getting what's best for the club, and getting what's best for you.

And unfortunately the dwar is not fair.

Never has been, never will.