Jumpers

[liz]

Originally posted by footyhead

Well in response to 1. It is bad publicity and just shows a lack of depth of feeling at a club when a champions number is dusted off too early. You would have thought that the Swans would of learn't this after the Plugger debacle. That they should of given out the number 4 so quickley was discracfull, and then for Ben Mathews not to give it up was embarrassing. I mean a players number can become hallowed by the acheivments of that player, and it does not help a team "move on" any faster to recycle absolute champions numbers too quickley. All it does is destroys the process of enhancing the history and acheivments of the club.
I agree that at the moment our club needs to win premeirships, but after we do, the memory of Kelly and the retiring of his jumper for a suitable time will add to our folk lore possitively. Just as the story of how we showed great disrespect to Plugger should add to our passages of historical shame.

Disagree with most of that.

As a rule I'm not in favour of retiring numbers for any length of time. 4 was retired for a year in recognition of the status of Plugger, but the number has nothing like as much meaning to the club as no 14 does. It was appropriate that it was allocated after a year and Mathews was a fine recipient. He was also given it with Lockett's blessing.

Your final sentence (above) I find baffling.

[footyhead]

Baffldee de baffldee dum, i think that Plugger being arguably the gratest player in the history of the game , should not have had his number given away so quickley. The very fact that the club had given his number away by the time he returned after only one year out of footy, shows that they were premature in the least and disrespectfull of the number and the man who played in it.
I think that is fairly obvious. The Swans got caught out. To discribe it as "baffling", is indeed baffling !
Oh and another thing, as to Ben mathews playing in # 4 !! that is like Ben Graham playing in # 5 for Geelong, no hang on Ben Graham is (or was) their captain- somthing Ben Mathews will never be, so maybe it is like Kent kingsley wearing the mighty # 5 - at any rate disrespectfull.
Baffling ? I think not for anyone who values the culture of the game and the acheivments of extraordinary players.
# 4 should have been put away longer - period.

[TheHood]

Originally posted by footyhead
Baffldee de baffldee dum, i think that Plugger being arguably the gratest player in the history of the game , should not have had his number given away so quickley. The very fact that the club had given his number away by the time he returned after only one year out of footy, shows that they were premature in the least and disrespectfull of the number and the man who played in it.
I think that is fairly obvious. The Swans got caught out. To discribe it as "baffling", is indeed baffling !
Oh and another thing, as to Ben mathews playing in # 4 !! that is like Ben Graham playing in # 5 for Geelong, no hang on Ben Graham is (or was) their captain- somthing Ben Mathews will never be, so maybe it is like Kent kingsley wearing the mighty # 5 - at any rate disrespectfull.
Baffling ? I think not for anyone who values the culture of the game and the acheivments of extraordinary players.
# 4 should have been put away longer - period.

Are you still wearing your #4 to bed sweetie?

[footyhead]

No but I wear my # 14 boxers everywhere !

[snajik]

Originally posted by lizz
Disagree with most of that.

As a rule I'm not in favour of retiring numbers for any length of time. 4 was retired for a year in recognition of the status of Plugger, but the number has nothing like as much meaning to the club as no 14 does. It was appropriate that it was allocated after a year and Mathews was a fine recipient.

2 years?

[jixygirl]

If the number 14 is to be kept retired or to be given to Schneiderman, it depends on a couple of things:

1. Paul Kelly's blessing - pretty obvious, the club would definitely want his blessing before even considering giving his number to another player.

2. The Club - The Swans are definitely better informed to make a judgement on how Schneiderman would be affected by wearing the no.14, especially the coaches.

3. Adam Schneider - Only he knows what his feelings are towards next season.

If it came down to me, I'd say give it another year.

[Damien]

I notice that 17 is now used by Richmond for their Captain, a new tradition to recognise Jack Dyer.

I think that would be a perfect jesture for the number 14....not that i want to be seen as following Richmond on anything!!, but Skilton and Kelly are amazing legends of the club.

[Bear]

Originally posted by footyhead
There are three issues here as far as I can see.
1 the retirment of #14.
2. players taking a learning curb in their second year.
3.the pressure put on a young player when wearing a superstars number.
.....

Well in response to 1. It is bad publicity and just shows a lack of depth of feeling at a club when a champions number is dusted off too early. You would have thought that the Swans would of learn't this after the Plugger debacle. That they should of given out the number 4 so quickley was discracfull, and then for Ben Mathews not to give it up was embarrassing. I mean a players number can become hallowed by the acheivments of that player, and it does not help a team "move on" any faster to recycle absolute champions numbers too quickley. All it does is destroys the process of enhancing the history and acheivments of the club.
I agree that at the moment our club needs to win premeirships, but after we do, the memory of Kelly and the retiring of his jumper for a suitable time will add to our folk lore possitively. Just as the story of how we showed great disrespect to Plugger should add to our passages of historical shame.

2. Sneider mayt well be on a steep learning curb next year and so I hope the continue to give him plenty of time as a crumber in the forward line , so that he can consolidate on a position he obviously plays very well. I think it would be a mistake to try and force to become that ruck rover we depseratley need. Sure give him a run but don't let him get too many expectations going for himself. That way he can enjoy his second year even if it aint as spectacular as 2003.

3. Any young player wearing a champions number is going to be aware of the fact that they are doing so. This will deffinatley have some kind of conscious or unconscious effect on that player. This is why it should definatley not be done in a players second year in the 1sts.
Bear, your "Pressure is for tyres", comment is nieve and ignorant in the extream when it comes to how the psyche of human beings function. Any fool can see that in this game getting ahead of your self is one of the worste things that a player can do. What is one of the primary ways a player gets ahead of themselves?? (especially in their second years ) by have pressure applied through self expectations or those of the club/fans.
So for that reasone alone Schneider should not wear number 14 next year.
The fact that some of you here want him to, just makes me think that we have quite a nuber of crack- jobs within the fan club of the Swans. The lack of eduction of the average Swans fan, when it comes to understanding the finer points of football, obviously still leaves a lot to be desired.

You've got to laugh...

Your spelling, amongst other things, shows that you are actually the uneducated one.

[footyhead]

Spelling, schmelling.
The fact remains it would be a mistake to give #14 to Schneider next year.

[Plugger46]

The things we argue about, over the summer ..

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Damien
I notice that 17 is now used by Richmond for their Captain, a new tradition to recognise Jack Dyer.

I think that would be a perfect jesture for the number 14....not that i want to be seen as following Richmond on anything!!, but Skilton and Kelly are amazing legends of the club.

I think this could be a good idea.

Sometimes I think people overrate the importance of the numbers - it's the players in the jumpers not the numbers on their back. But I know some of the numbers (well this one anyway) has sentimental value, so should have special treatment. However, I wouldn't overdo it, like retire it or not use it for a number of years. This latter one is a great way to increase the pressure on anyone likely to get it.

Still, I reckon Schneider would be a good one for the number, but they probably should wait a year. However, let's not wait too long before handing it out.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by footyhead
Spelling, schmelling.
The fact remains it would be a mistake to give #14 to Schneider next year.

Ah... that's not actually a fact - it's an opinion.

[monopoly19]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Sometimes I think people overrate the importance of the numbers - it's the players in the jumpers not the numbers on their back.

When Kelly retired, I thought it would be a sign of respect to retire the number as well, but I've since changed my mind. It's just a number, afterall. I don't see how it detracts from anything that Kelly or Skilton did by having someone else (not of the same playing/leadership ability) wearing it. The clubs recognised them already, and I think they realise how significant they were to the Swans without having the jumper retired or set aside for someone 'special'.

As for giving it to the captain, maybe Maxfield (or whoever it would be) feels attached to their own number. Why make them change?

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by monopoly19
When Kelly retired, I thought it would be a sign of respect to retire the number as well, but I've since changed my mind. It's just a number, afterall. I don't see how it detracts from anything that Kelly or Skilton did by having someone else (not of the same playing/leadership ability) wearing it. The clubs recognised them already, and I think they realise how significant they were to the Swans without having the jumper retired or set aside for someone 'special'.

Yep - exactly.

As for giving it to the captain, maybe Maxfield (or whoever it would be) feels attached to their own number. Why make them change?

Yeah, that's the main problem I thought of. I think it makes some sense to do it, however players become comfortable with their own number and generally dislike changing, particularly after a number of years.

[Damien]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Yep - exactly.



Yeah, that's the main problem I thought of. I think it makes some sense to do it, however players become comfortable with their own number and generally dislike changing, particularly after a number of years.

In my view, it would become an honour to take on that number and the captaincy!

Considering our sometimes disturbing history!, I think we have a great opportunity to start a new tradition honouring possibly our two most loved and loyal players and two players that represent both sides of our history.

If not the captain, something else then. (Not that I can think of anything!)