Roos get it right.

**desredandwhite** · 23 February 2003, 08:26 PM

I'm not sure it was Paul Roos' fault that the players couldn't position themselves to give their teammates something to kick to, or that it was his fault that the players couldn't seem to be able to execute the most basic of skills, like kicking accurately, or take marks!! The number of times we dropped simple marks was amazing.

The player movements were ok too, like dropping Stevens (who was in form) back to help out in defence when we were being flogged. I'm not sure the established supercoaches like Sheedy, Matthews, Pagan etc could have done much if they had to tackle Brisbane with an under-powered and inexperienced side like ours

For every player like Nicks who slipped away when Roos took over, there are others like Fosdike or Goodes who improved. Don't think there's much you can read into it.

There is one thing I WILL agree with you on though, Andy. The "Leadership Group" concept is IMHO a bit flawed. It leaves too much room for guys to be "carried" by others.

**Charlie** · 23 February 2003, 08:28 PM

First of all, LS - if you think I'm attacking you, just don't bother reading this post because I'm not.

a) You talk about it being too early for a player to be marked as unrequired, but you are happy to call on Roos to 'get it right' in February. Seymour, McPherson, Warfe, Nicks and Bolton have all had between 60 and 140 games in which to 'get it right'. Roos has had 10 plus two preseason games. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

b) The 'elite group' was actually elected by the players themselves... no playing favourites from the coach.

c) What exactly does Stu Maxfield have to do? He was our number 1 possession getter last night, in his 2nd game in 8 months!!! Give the poor guy a chance. He's not Paul Kelly, he's Stuart Maxfield. Like it or not, he's our Captain now. Paul Kelly is our runner.

d) So what if there isn't a VC. All they do is fill in if the skipper is injured anyway. Perhaps, instead of writing it off, you should give the new idea a chance. The Kangaroos enjoy the best leadership in the league, because ANYONE is a leader, if they apply the necessary endeavour, ability and initiative.

**LondonSwan** · 23 February 2003, 08:35 PM

Thanks Des and I agree with a lot of what you've said but Roos is coach and must accept responsibility for the problem with skills etc.

What I saw at the training sessions suggested that they were not up to where the Eagles and Dockers were and these sides will walk all over us if this state of affairs continues.

With respect to Nicks he was a class act and now what have we got with him.

C, I have read your post, and it didnt strike me as a personal attack.

I will only make three comments, Charlie.

1) I dont think the players had much choice as far as the vote went - you either did it or fell out with the coach.

It also doesnt say much about the number of votes cast for each player when you end up with nine elite. The electorate wasnt that large after all and 3 votes would probably have been enough to get a cap (with a propellor on it).

2) As far as writing Roos off - a few posters are doing the same with the players, he has to stand up and be counted also.

3) Stuey may have been the major possession getter but it still doesn't make him a Captain - he has to motivate the players also.In all fairness did he do it

**Charlie** · 23 February 2003, 09:08 PM

3) Stuey may have been the major possession getter but it still doesn't make him a Captain - he has to motivate the players also.In all fairness did he do it

I don't know... do you? Were you on the training track and in the team meetings this week? Were you there at dinner at Maxi's place, and were the younger players invited round for a meal?
Were you in the rooms pre-match and at half-time? Were you in the 1/4 and 3/4 time huddles? Could you hear him everytime he was in a pack with a younger player during centre bounces or throw-ins?

You just don't know, do you? I don't, but I'm willing to give him a chance. PK wasn't much of a talker either, but he did a decent job, don't you think?

2) As far as writing Roos off - a few posters are doing the same with the players, he has to stand up and be counted also.

And you said yourself, it was too early to write off the players... so why is it high time to judge the coach, who is considerably less experienced anyway?

1) I dont think the players had much choice as far as the vote went - you either did it or fell out with the coach.

If you wish to post conspiracy theories about staged elections (!?)
please present your evidence at the same time as the theory. Otherwise, it is wild speculation.

Charlie

**floppinab** · 23 February 2003, 09:24 PM

Roos is safe for this year regardless of ladder position.

It's still hard to see anything happening even if we struggle next year, but you never know.

I'm pretty sure Roos made a statement last week that the jury was still out on the VC situation and they will resolve it one way or the other before the season proper beginning. I guess I can't understand why he would leave it hanging out this long, so I agree that it appears a bit indecisive. If he's still looking for someone or ones to stand up they surely should have done so by now.

The leadership group idea is OK by me. I see it more as mentoring thing particularly for the newer recruits having more of a meaning off the field. I doubt it adds that much value on the field.

**LondonSwan** · 23 February 2003, 10:19 PM

I dont intend to get into a scrap as they are my opinions only and noone is going to be proved right or wrong at this time.

No I havent been in the huddles at 1/4 or 3/4 time nor have I been to the said dinners but neither has anyone else on this board.

Dinners and the like dont seem to have produced the results so far and I go back to last year when he acted as Captain and he didnt get them over the line in one match when they should have walked it in. He was playing well and then lifted his game over that but the rest didnt lift with him. We also seemed to win without him late in the season with Kells in charge. The pointers arent there C.

Notwithstanding, I have seen the training sessions and the players seemed to walk over aimlessly to training - there was no zest in them - I have also seen the Dockers and Eagles sessions and they are bouncing every time they head out onto the field. Maybe it was the humidity and heat, Perth doesnt get that though!!!

It is only an observation but there appears to be a problem and it is only a comparison I am making after seeing and comparing us with other teams.

You raised the conspiracy theme this time - Ther was no intent on my part to do so.

It was merely a statement of fact that they would not have had a choice to vote or not to and I would think it would have been a secret ballot anyway, doesnt sound like conspiracy to me. They could have written Mick Malthouse and Eddy MacGuire on the vote paper for all I know.

Maybe I am the Devils Advocate but I think it is time the Swans found out why players who could be match winners are not performing as yet.

Now Des is going to expect me to shut up and I am going to heed his request.

**Jimmy C** · 23 February 2003, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by LondonSwan
Maybe I am the Devils Advocate but I think it is time the Swans found out why players who could be match winners are not performing as yet.

In my opinion, the club seems to be a little too patient (or soft?) with players who don't rise up to (at least our) expectations. I think (again, in my opinion) that some other clubs would not have been as patient with the likes of Frosty, Snapper, Nicks, Bolton J, and (dare I say it) Magic, to name a few. Maybe the new vision needs to incorporate a little more ruthlesness rather than sentimental values.

**desredandwhite** · 23 February 2003, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by LondonSwan

Maybe I am the Devils Advocate but I think it is time the Swans found out why players who could be match winners are not performing as yet.

Your guess is as good as mine. Potential is an ugly word.. *coughdalelewiscough*

I guess it's human nature. You will never have your entire team all playing to their full potential all at the same time. We will have to work out a system to ensure that players in form are given the best opportunity to maximise their effectiveness, and that players out of form are given the best opportunity to work their way back into form.

We're certainly not going to get anything close to "the full picture" without seeing how Paul Roos manages an entire season. Malcolm Blight scored numerous grand finals, and even won two with Adelaide. Then the farce with St Kilda. I'm working on the assumption that Malcolm Blight was not really the problem there!

Now Des is going to expect me to shut up and I am going to heed his request.

I don't see a problem with questioning things. What you're probably worried about is backlash over the "innocent until proven guilty" attitude vs the "you have to prove yourself before you're accepted" attitude.

**LondonSwan** · 24 February 2003, 02:33 PM

Got it in one Des and there is no sense in attacking others who have the same right to their opinions as I have.

Andy

**CureTheSane** · 24 February 2003, 06:57 PM

I was an advocate of a 1 -2 year contract for Roos.
I think he'll be great, but he is largely an unknown quantity, so why take risk?

But people, re-read what Roos has said about this season.
I don't really care if he takes all season playing with positions and trying new things, provided he keeps getting closer to our longer term goal.

Now, as far as a pre-season loss against the reigning premiers with a lot of our better players out goes, did anyone read what Roos said about that?

Save the specualtion and gripes for the real season, but keep in mind what the Swans are doing.

Just about everyone here was in favour of a youth/re-building policy, well, here it is!!!
It's not gonna be all that pretty, and we will lose some games.
My suggestion would be to expect a loss every game this year.
A win is a bonus.

Having said that, I will be marking down the Swans for a win in every game st the start of the season.
I can't 'not' select them

**LondonSwan** · 24 February 2003, 07:42 PM

Ditto CTS - lose or win I am getting edgy about the time still to go before the start of the season.

They may not have the greatest list but fire them up and
anything could happen. He still has time to work on the skills.

**LondonSwan** · 24 February 2003, 09:50 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by floppinab
[B]Roos is safe for this year regardless of ladder position.

I would agree but the knives will be out at the end of the season if he cant improve on last year. There will be those who were itching to give another a go and these guys dont forget or forgive easily.

**TheHood** · 25 February 2003, 07:36 AM

What an unbelievably NEGATIVE thread!

Seriously, give me a first year senior coach from the current crop that with a fairly mediocre list that you expect the make the finals and inspire miracles for a flag???

Rhode?
Laidley?
Roos?

Of the relatively new coaches, these guys have some leeway from the club, players and the boards that all new coaches need:

Connelly
Thompson
Worsfold

These guys have had success and only when medicrity and injuries strike have these coaches felt some heat:

Frawley
Schwab
Williams (to an extent for bad finals performances)

Roosy needs time to prove himself and if you don't have patience for his plan to be bedded down then LS you will only get yourself in knotts.

He's a good man, who was a star player who is a great example for players to aspire and he communicates his message pretty well. If player can't understand where he is coming from then I suspect they are probably the equivalent of dumb, overweight bush kids from outback Western Australia.

**gloveski** · 25 February 2003, 09:10 AM

with all our injuries most likely all the leadership group will get a run at being v.c

Something seriously has to be done with the hardness of the s.c.g or the season will be over before it began

I can see in the not to distant future us trading an injury prone player to another team only to see him star as that team has better injury management

A player like Nicks who has gone down hill drastically of late has always had trouble with his back surely running around on hard surfaces all preseason would not be doing anygood

Roos get it right.

Roos get it right.

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