Beaten Again

[Craig]

Whilst it was only a practice match, I still think that there were some worrying signs. The actual result isn't the issue, it is the fact that we couldn't score a goal in over a half of footy and once again couldn't stop the oppositions FF dominating.

Yes we had a lot of senior players out, but that is no excuse. Don't forget Carlton were playing a handful of youngsters as well. From the two practice matches I have seen this year, the team was trying extremely hard, so I question those who think the Swans were there for a picnic.

Let's hope that we can turn it around quickly, get over our usual long injury list and be firing come round 1.

[Steve]

All you have to do is compare the mindsets of the respective coaches:

Paul Roos (prior to the game):

"If Carlton beat us, they've beat us. "It's no great drama for us. It's important for us to just prepare for the season."

?We will play Jude Bolton at halfback flank so really tomorrow is giving the young kids time, experimenting again.?

?The last two practice games is when we will look at getting our better players on the field. That is when you start to get a bit more concerned about how we are playing, the team chemistry and all that sort of thing.?

?We have Scott Stevens rucking, and he?s not played there since Auskick, so that will be an interesting experiment. I was going to get Dylan and Tyler but they are not quite tall enough.?

?Saddington and Crouch will play a half while Barry Hall and Andrew Schauble will only play the first half as we just have to be continually mindful of monitoring the guys throughout the pre-season.

?Hopefully next week we will get a couple more back and gradually start to get our better players back on the field.?


Denis Pagan (after the game):

"Our confidence was shot to bits and we needed to lift this situation and do something about it and they did."

"We got a little fired up and we just had to stand for something."

"I'm sure the win was what the doctor ordered in readiness for the first match against the Swans in four weeks and we needed this win and take a lot of positives from the game."

Carlton were desperate to win to gain some sort of (misguided) confidence going into the H&A season, although even they would have been surprised with the Herald Sun's view on the win:


CARLTON is ready to shake off last year's wooden spoon tag after thrashing Sydney by 40 points in a practice match in Coffs Harbour yesterday.

The victory was new coach Denis Pagan's first at the club and gave an indication they could be one of the season's big improvers.

Roos has been quoted as saying there are too many PS games anyway, and has placed greater emphasis on using them to prepare players individually rather than the overall team structure.

Is anyone worried about Brisbane? Matthews publicly states that he'd prefer to lose to Geelong, they do whilst resting a number of players, yet presumably that is no indication of how successful there season will be.

[LondonSwan]

Anyone see the article on Goodes in the Sunday paper - looks like it has always been the plan to have him as a permanent fixture in the ruck. Seems a bit of a waste to me. But he is big, far bigger than I thought, he would intimidate any opposition ruck, not only size but speed and agility to boot.

Ball looks fragile and what is happening with Doyle.

[desredandwhite]

Funny thing about Goodes is he seems to be more focused when asked to have a run on the ball. He can only at best providfe a contest to the taller, more experienced specialist ruckmen at ruck contests, but he will smash them to pieces playing around the ground. He's been tried at CHF (with wildly inconsistent results) and at CHB (with equally inconsistent results, and the tendency to run forward to be the leading goalkicker anyway) and his best performances are STILL in the ruck - Probably kickstarted by the game vs North Melbourne in 99 (round 4?) when we lost Stafford early.

[Cheer Cheer]

Ball should be back next week and doyle the week after which is good news, its looks like we will have a full list by round 1 , but alas with alot of players with no match practice.

By the way one S.Stevens was in the top 3 best swans players again. Watch this space the kid is going to have a big year.

[Mike_B]

I saw the article, but can't seem to find it anywhere online to post here. Interesting that Goodesy himself said he wants to play in the ruck or on the wing. I would hope then that we see him on the wing, as Ball and Doyle would be my top 2 choices for ruckmen, and if Goodesy is playing in the ruck, then it means one or both of those 2 aren't playing.

[Mike_B]

Originally posted by Cheer Cheer
By the way one S.Stevens was in the top 3 best swans players again. Watch this space the kid is going to have a big year.

Stevens must have played well considering he would have been off the field for a while at one stage during the game - "Stevens left the ground with blood streaming from his head early in the first quarter and Hall retired with a hip strain after kicking the opening goal. " (full article can be found at http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/a...407803857.html )

[LondonSwan]

Originally posted by Cheer Cheer
Ball should be back next week and doyle the week after which is good news, its looks like we will have a full list by round 1 , but alas with alot of players with no match practice.

By the way one S.Stevens was in the top 3 best swans players again. Watch this space the kid is going to have a big year.

CC Where did you hear that Ball would be back next week ?

Des - Do u know where the Swans are training this week and what days?

[Craig]

I definately agree with your comments about Goodes - his best position by far is in the ruck. CHF should be left to Scotty Stevens.

I would like to see Ball fit again. Having him in a forward pocket, swapping with Goodes would be very nice. I'm a big fan of Jason. Yes he had a shocker last year, but in 2001 he was great and really showed what he is capable of.

Not sure on Doyal. He has been injured every year he's been at the club and when he has played he didn't particularly set the world on fire. IMO he is very over rated.

[desredandwhite]

Not sure about training in the offseason Andy.. Give the club a call, they are usually pretty good at giving out training times for anyone who's interested.

[LondonSwan]

Originally posted by Mike_B
I saw the article, but can't seem to find it anywhere online to post here. Interesting that Goodesy himself said he wants to play in the ruck or on the wing. I would hope then that we see him on the wing, as Ball and Doyle would be my top 2 choices for ruckmen, and if Goodesy is playing in the ruck, then it means one or both of those 2 aren't playing.

Your tabloids all look the same to me - but he was quite clear that he wanted to play in the ruck and expected to. If Sydney are to get a high scorer in the Brownlow - he might be the one to do it.

How good is Doyle, he seems to be in and out a lot - a lot of hype but nothing to suggest he lives up to it.

[Mike_B]

IMHO Doyle was really starting to show how good he could be when he got injured in the Burgoyne charge in Rd 15 last year. He could be a VERY good player, but so far in his time with the club, he has never really been able to string a series of games together due to injury. Hopefully this year could result in a change in fortunes for him.

I would prefer to see Ball as the No 1 ruckman with Doyle playing as a tall option up forward and doing some work in the ruck in the latter part of quarters where he can use his height to advantage. IMHO his mobility can be exloited by some of the more mobile ruckman in the comp, hence not playing him in the ruck all the time.

[LondonSwan]

Originally posted by Mike_B
IMHO Doyle was really starting to show how good he could be when he got injured in the Burgoyne charge in Rd 15 last year. He could be a VERY good player, but so far in his time with the club, he has never really been able to string a series of games together due to injury. Hopefully this year could result in a change in fortunes for him.

I would prefer to see Ball as the No 1 ruckman with Doyle playing as a tall option up forward and doing some work in the ruck in the latter part of quarters where he can use his height to advantage. IMHO his mobility can be exloited by some of the more mobile ruckman in the comp, hence not playing him in the ruck all the time.

With my limited knowledge, I would agree but it worries me that both are injury prone - this would be more so for Ball than Doyle.

Roos maybe right in trying Goodes out as full time ruck.

[gloveski]

I would love to see Goodes playing on a Wing I really think if we could get someone else fit enough to play in the ruck and go with Scotty Stevens at CHF it would be the making of him.

But I still think he will be used as the man to plug gaps week in week out as he is so versatile.And in all honesty with our rate of injuries we will have plenty of gaps to fill

[liz]

I'm not convinced by the idea of Goodes as a full-time ruckman. There are games when it will work, but (I suspect) far more when it won't. Against Brisbane last week the best he was able to do was provide body contact against taller opposition. Only a few of times did he get a clear hit-out to Sydney's advantage and those were mostly thumps forward (to a Brisbane midfielder!) His body will take a huge battering playing that role continuously and I fear it will eventually take away from his ability to provide something around the ground.

Against Melbourne in R21 last season it most definitely did work. On several occasions he helped the midfield win the ball from centre bounces and was then in the F50 in a flash to either create or score a goal. Meanwhile the commentators noticed that Jeff White (himself supposedly one of the more mobile rucks) was still in the centre square. But we aren't going to have that many games where our midfield is that dominant, or the opposition ruckman so inept.

I'm also a little dubious if he's being played there because he wants to play there. As a ruck you are often taken to the ball and that maybe why he finds it a relatively easy role to play. But are the coaching team doing the right thing by the team by having him as the ruck. Maybe they should be focussing on teaching him to read the play better so he can fulfill a different role where he would be more damaging - ideally a Kouta circa 2000/1 role) and leave the bulk of the ruckwork to those with the height for it.

On Doyle, he has gradually bulked up since he joined us as a beanpole, so hopefully his body will be less injury prone. The one against Port last year was nothing to do with his body being injury prone - just a reckless act from the opposition. Templeton was a huge rap for Doyle - on more than one occasion he named him as being the most naturally talented player in the squad. Fingers crossed...