What I think we need

[footyhead]

What I think we need is a bit of a re jig.
So far all we have really had is the same team as Rodney Eade + a few new kids + a bit of inspiration from a new coach.
The great thing the Swans did under Barrasi, was set up a really strong leadership group, get a really really inspiring captain who could lead from the front for about ten years, and then they went and got some bloody good recruits.
We need a bit of vision about the place, then the pain of loosing would not seem all for nought.
I know everybody says we are rebuilding, but rebuilding is a lot more than just playing the kids. We need a vision for the future of this club, and right now I am not sure anyone inside the club has one, or is able to deliver on the one they may have.

[footyhead]

Oh I also think we might need to get rid of a couple of players to, just so they understand as agroup that if they don't perform, they will be on there way. It seems to work well at Carlton. I don't think this touchy feely crap that Roos has brought inis working very well at the moment.

[monopoly19]

Re: What I think we need

Originally posted by footyhead

The great thing the Swans did under Barrasi, was set up a really strong leadership group, get a really really inspiring captain who could lead from the front for about ten years, and then they went and got some bloody good recruits.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think you can just 'get' a Paul Kelly because you decide that's what we need. By all accounts Maxfield is a very popular captain within the club, and that's what matters most.

[liz]

Re: What I think we need

Originally posted by footyhead
We need a bit of vision about the place, then the pain of loosing would not seem all for nought.
I know everybody says we are rebuilding, but rebuilding is a lot more than just playing the kids. We need a vision for the future of this club, and right now I am not sure anyone inside the club has one, or is able to deliver on the one they may have.

I have these hazy recollections of 18 months ago the Swans appointing a rookie coach who reportedly blew the board away with his five year blueprint for the football side of the club. Let me see, what was his name? Oh yes, Paul Roos.

Now if I remember correctly, this plan recognised that with the loss of a huge core of senior players the Swans probably didn't have a squad capable of winning a premiership and proposed a plan that might position the club to win a premiership in 3-5 years. This involved a change to the previous strategy of giving away our top picks for players like Lockett, Hall, Williams, Ball etc, recognising that while these were / had been fine players for the club, this strategy had not really got the club that close.

Instead, no doubt aided by the experience of Andrew Ireland, it looked to the Brisbane blueprint where a squad had been slowly developed over a long period of time, predominantly by drafting but with the cany addition of a few experienced players when the opportunities for getting value appeared. The aim was not to hastily pull together a team that might be able to snatch a premiership on the run but one that would have the depth and strength to allow Sydney to become a consistent and genuine challenger for a flag.

We were warned that over the next couple of years we should expect some mixed results, with the team playing well one week and then maybe struggling a bit as it gradually came to terms with the injection of new talent to replace Dunkley, Kelly, Schwass, Cresswell.

Now the plan went a little off the rails last year when, instead of playing patchy football, the team surprised the football world by finishing 4th after the H&A and pulling off a marvelous victory over the league leader at their home ground, before being bravely defeated in a PF by the best team of the past three years. So instead of getting a draft pick around the 5-8 mark, our first pick was at 16. That meant that getting a ready-to-play quality midfielder was not really possible so, sticking to the aim of finding some true quality for the future, the club chose two highly rated youngsters who would take a year or two or three to mature.

This year, so far, we are seeing what the plan predicted for us - some great football in parts, together with some games (or even just parts of games) not so good. As a squad with around a dozen young, developing players not yet ready for AFL, the squad is, understandably, light on depth meaning that injuries to its FB, a handful of its gun forwards, and now its reigning club champion / BM'ist were always going to leave it vulnerable to injuries.

Over the past two seasons we have seen the introduction of three players who have won RS nominations, and another smattering of youngsters who have shown some promise. We have seen much more responsibility given to 3rd and 4th year players like Kennelly, James and O'Keefe, mostly to great effect.

So that is the club's vision, one that will take time to work, if indeed it does ever achieve.

Eighteen months into a 5 year plan that you clearly think is either non-existant or destined to fail, what is your alternative?

[stellation]

What we need is Chris Judd. If we get Chris Judd we will win a premiership the first season he plays here. I would be happy for the Swans recruiters to move heaven and earth to prove me wrong (and, say, have us win one in his second or third year here). He will have to break that 4 year or whatever it is contract to the Weagles of course.

[TheHood]

Re: Re: What I think we need

Originally posted by lizz
I have these hazy recollections of 18 months ago the Swans appointing a rookie coach who reportedly blew the board away with his five year blueprint for the football side of the club. Let me see, what was his name? Oh yes, Paul Roos.

Now if I remember correctly, this plan recognised that with the loss of a huge core of senior players the Swans probably didn't have a squad capable of winning a premiership and proposed a plan that might position the club to win a premiership in 3-5 years. This involved a change to the previous strategy of giving away our top picks for players like Lockett, Hall, Williams, Ball etc, recognising that while these were / had been fine players for the club, this strategy had not really got the club that close.

Instead, no doubt aided by the experience of Andrew Ireland, it looked to the Brisbane blueprint where a squad had been slowly developed over a long period of time, predominantly by drafting but with the cany addition of a few experienced players when the opportunities for getting value appeared. The aim was not to hastily pull together a team that might be able to snatch a premiership on the run but one that would have the depth and strength to allow Sydney to become a consistent and genuine challenger for a flag.

We were warned that over the next couple of years we should expect some mixed results, with the team playing well one week and then maybe struggling a bit as it gradually came to terms with the injection of new talent to replace Dunkley, Kelly, Schwass, Cresswell.

Now the plan went a little off the rails last year when, instead of playing patchy football, the team surprised the football world by finishing 4th after the H&A and pulling off a marvelous victory over the league leader at their home ground, before being bravely defeated in a PF by the best team of the past three years. So instead of getting a draft pick around the 5-8 mark, our first pick was at 16. That meant that getting a ready-to-play quality midfielder was not really possible so, sticking to the aim of finding some true quality for the future, the club chose two highly rated youngsters who would take a year or two or three to mature.

This year, so far, we are seeing what the plan predicted for us - some great football in parts, together with some games (or even just parts of games) not so good. As a squad with around a dozen young, developing players not yet ready for AFL, the squad is, understandably, light on depth meaning that injuries to its FB, a handful of its gun forwards, and now its reigning club champion / BM'ist were always going to leave it vulnerable to injuries.

Over the past two seasons we have seen the introduction of three players who have won RS nominations, and another smattering of youngsters who have shown some promise. We have seen much more responsibility given to 3rd and 4th year players like Kennelly, James and O'Keefe, mostly to great effect.

So that is the club's vision, one that will take time to work, if indeed it does ever achieve.

Eighteen months into a 5 year plan that you clearly think is either non-existant or destined to fail, what is your alternative?

I know this sounds a bit laid back, but I would normally be frumpy as hell amidst a 5 game losing streak, but I am not upset or too uncomfortable with our efforts.

Our losses have been peppered with some brilliant play at times showing what we are capable of when we get going. Some injuries have not helped but there are opportunities there too.

As for the long term plan, well that is the thing that we have to remind ourselves of when we think so and so is not coming along or this experiment didn't work or why are we persisting with this strategy.

Could be worse! We could be without a plan like the Crows or the Pies or even the Hawks. Imagine knowing that your coach is in his last year no matter what?

We can turn this around with some 4 quarter form.

[monopoly19]

Re: Re: Re: What I think we need

Originally posted by TheHood
I know this sounds a bit laid back, but I would normally be frumpy as hell amidst a 5 game losing streak, but I am not upset or too uncomfortable with our efforts.

I completely agree. While I was incredibly disappointed after the Richmond loss (not because we lost, but how we lost), I'm not feeling too bad about our 4 (?) game losing streak just yet. With all the wonderful things that happened towards the end of last season, I think the loss of Cresswell was downplayed and in reality it has had a huge effect on how our midfield works atm, and in time this may become less of a problem.

When I look at our team, I am actually very excited for the future. Schneider, Bevan, McVeigh, Buchanan, LRT, Powell and Ablett are all kids that I hold in pretty high regard (some more than others ) and would love, love, love to see them all there in he starting 22 5 years from now. The fact that 5/7 of them are from NSW is also pretty cool, but not very relevant...

The strange thing is, I still go into every game thinking that we will win. Not thinking that we could win, but that we will. Pre-2003, it was almost the opposite. I still hate it when we lose, but I don't think we're done with yet (and I don't think the players would think we are either).

[Rob-bloods]

Agree entirely with Lizz & T'Hood

If I may summarise..

We do have positives..

McVeigh Buchanan Bevan all look first grade quality at present.

O'Keefe has stepped up considerably.

Goodes' injury tragic as it is, for once leaves us with TWO ruckman still.

Our defence is smallish and Schaub's hasn't kicked a ball yet, still we have not been towelled , and take a look at Port on Saturday as to folding totally.

And expanding on Lizz's long post, I think Roos said last year, and we all know it, that we do not have a team of stars, we have a fairly even spread and really to achieve what we did last year we need everyone playing well. Let's face it this has just not happened.

Kenneally, Maxfield, Davis, Jude B, LRT, Schneider Goodes Willliams Fosdike are not playing well.

We have genuinely been in a position to win every match, OK we haven't kicked on and that is the bitter pill.

But come on we are still in a rebuilding phase, a great result last year has not changed that, and we are certainly not dead yet!

[monopoly19]

Originally posted by Rob-bloods
Goodes' injury tragic as it is, for once leaves us with TWO ruckman still.

If Goodes is out for an extended amount of time (praying that he's not), it will force Roosy to rotate Ball/Doyle through the ruck, without the added pressure of people wanting Goodesy to go there. If the team starts to get used to the Ball/Doyle combination, and the midfielders learn to read their taps a little better, Roosy will have a few more options when Goodesy returns (if he is out at all).

[Go Swannies]

Originally posted by stellation
What we need is Chris Judd. If we get Chris Judd we will win a premiership the first season he plays here. I would be happy for the Swans recruiters to move heaven and earth to prove me wrong (and, say, have us win one in his second or third year here). He will have to break that 4 year or whatever it is contract to the Weagles of course.

No, let's get Jason Akermanis and James Hird. That should strengthen our midfield.

By the way, nice post Lizz. I'm glad Roos isn't panicking as much as some here.

I was trying to find the greatest number of games in a row that thr Swans have lost and found this instead. It's after this weekend's results. I can't decide if it's encouraging our discouraging.

"Only 3 teams have won 2 or more games against Top 8 opponents ? St.Kilda 5 from 5, Sydney 3 from 6 and Hawthorn 2 from 6._ Apart from Essendon, Collingwood and Richmond ? who have not yet won against a top eight opponent, every other team has won just once.

Sydney and Hawthorn have yet to win against a bottom 8 opponent."

[hammo]

Michael Voss would be nice however I think at this stage of his career we may get more value out of Matthew Pavlich

[sharp9]

Originally posted by Rob-bloods
\

Goodes' injury tragic as it is, for once leaves us with TWO ruckman still.

Ahem, four, actually (Ball, Doyle, Meiklejohn, Erikson....and Saddo!)

[robbieando]

Originally posted by stellation
What we need is Chris Judd. If we get Chris Judd we will win a premiership the first season he plays here. I would be happy for the Swans recruiters to move heaven and earth to prove me wrong (and, say, have us win one in his second or third year here). He will have to break that 4 year or whatever it is contract to the Weagles of course.

Oh god no. If he was available yes I would like us to go after him, but lets not go crazy and offer him a massive deal and throw high draft picks and young players at the Eagle to get him. I rather us go about getting the midfielder we want another way. Who said we need to go after the big names at the Lions and the Eagles, why not go after say a Chad Fletcher, who could given the chance really step up to be the top rate midfielder we need, plus he would be easier to get than a Judd.

[NMWBloods]

Re: Re: What I think we need

Originally posted by lizz
Now if I remember correctly, this plan recognised that with the loss of a huge core of senior players the Swans probably didn't have a squad capable of winning a premiership and proposed a plan that might position the club to win a premiership in 3-5 years.

One of the problems that currently stands with regard to this strategy, is that within 3-5 years a number of our players, who are young but fairly experienced, will be our senior players and leaders. However, given that they are currently underperforming, with no excuses like they are 'redeveloping', I wonder if they will regain sufficient form.

For example, players like J Bolton, Fosdike, Saddington, etc. have over 100 games to their credit and should be some of our leading players now and senior team members setting a good example and having a solid positive influence in this 3-5 time horizon. However, they are part of the problem of the current slump. Their form is poor or patchy at best. They can't use the excuse that it is a rebuilding process as they are well into their careers and should be playing a lot better.

If our crop of guys in the 50-150 game category don't improve a lot, then that 3-5 year (2-4 now) time horizon will be awfully difficult to achieve.

[Dave]

Re: Re: Re: What I think we need

Originally posted by TheHood
I know this sounds a bit laid back, but I would normally be frumpy as hell amidst a 5 game losing streak, but I am not upset or too uncomfortable with our efforts.

It's funny you say that as I'm also nowhere near as distraught as I may have been in recent years with such a run.

There is talent there, it just needs to find some consistencey.