Goodes' ruckman days 'over'

[BarneyG]

Goodes' ruckman days 'over'
May 17, 2004

BROWNLOW Medallist Adam Goodes' days as an AFL ruckman for Sydney are over.

Swans coach Paul Roos said today he can't afford to lose his star player to a recurrence of the knee injury suffered at the weekend which will sideline him for the next two to six weeks.

Roos said the debate about whether to play Goodes as a forward or in the ruck is over.

"We've said for a long time we don't think his future is in the ruck," Roos said.

"Now if there's anything positive to come out of this then that debate is finished.

"You won't see Adam Goodes in the centre square because we can't afford not to have him."

Goodes suffered his injury in a clash of knees at the opening bounce of Saturday's clash with West Coast at Subiaco Oval.

It's the latest in a spate of posterior cruciate ligament injuries to afflict AFL ruckmen, including Brisbane's Beau McDonald and West Coast's Michael Gardiner.

AAP

[hammo]

I hope he'll still be considered as a ruck rover.

[Charlie]

Why the hell can't these people think outside the square?

Just because he's a tall DOESN'T mean he has to have a key position!

[monopoly19]

It sounds to me like Roos is annoyed that he caved into the pressure to play Goodes in the ruck when he specifically didn't want to. His concerns seem kind of justified now, considering we may have lost Goodes for 6 weeks (give or take a year, depending on which number the medical staff pull out of a hat this time).

To me though, Goodes has never really proved himself as a good player outside of the ruck, and so prolonging his career by playing him out of position may well be a waste of time (I don't necessarily think so, but Goodes is nowhere near Brownlow form (yet) anywhere else but ruck, if you ask me).

[Charlie]

But the thing is, it wasn't his work at the bounces that generally made him so good last year. It wasn't bad, but it was his around the ground ruckwork and his general midfield ability that was so damn good.

Put Ball, Goodes, Kirk and Williams/Crouch/Bolton in the middle at bounces... I reckon that'd go a long way to solving our clearance problem.

[Rob-bloods]

Originally posted by Charlie
Why the hell can't these people think outside the square?

Just because he's a tall DOESN'T mean he has to have a key position!

Right on Charlie, IMHO if we cannot find a way to get Goodes'y into a game except throwing him into the ruck, then maybe we should trade him for a full back because he will not have a long career.

An athletic player 6'5" who can run all day, nippy for his height and we cannot use him! He is not Matthew Primus, he is not Jonathan Brown. Roos is an intelligent (ex) footballer who played very much his own type of game, we have to bloody well get Goodes'y to carve his own style on the game.

[Go Swannies]

Originally posted by Rob-bloods
we have to bloody well get Goodes'y to carve his own style on the game.

You know you are directly quoting Paul Roos here, don't you? He said it last year and again earlier this year.

My fear is that, as the results go against us that Roos is now listening to one dimensional tacticians like so many of us on RWO. His creativity seems to have dropped as expectations grew. Though I suspect the self belief that went with that freedom will have dropped as, one by one, the players are picked off by our posting snipers on the sidelines. Jude, Fossie, Stewie, Willo, Heath, Goodes, - every newcomer - then Jude again and the perennial Saddo.

This year Roos' only positional experimentation has been with Saddo and he's largely done alright up against players with lots more time in their fixed positions. And, of course, there was Goodes' move forward (that I suspect was partially to cover injury) and look how the criticism to that position has worked out.

It's as if Roos is getting exactly the same stale advice as we are giving him here - and it's not working out. Last year "just go for it" seemed to work. Detailed gameplans that the team doesn't follow don't seem to work.

How far could he go? Maybe everyone should try playing out of position? Think what a nightmare that would be for other coaches pre-planned match ups. Thinking of the most extreme case and I can't help smiling at the image of Fraser Gehrig standing in the goal square before the first bounce and watching the look on his face as Bazza (and his tagger) jog over to take up position alongside him . . . Think how much marker pen the Saints would get through before the end of the first quarter.

[NMWBloods]

Sounds like you think Roos actually uses RWO for tactical advice...

Goodes has pretty much only ever played well in a ruck/midfield role. He needs to play in the ruck, but not at the centre bounce.

[Go Swannies]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Sounds like you think Roos actually uses RWO for tactical advice...

No - I think he is probably getting similar advice elsewhere and he's taking it against his better instincts. I'm hoping he'll go back to his innate feel for the game. In March I was asking if he'd be able to stay as far in front of the other coaches as he was last year. I think they have now drawn level. Still, if you are matching it pretty well with old foxes like Sheedy and Matthews you're doing okay as a rookie.

[Red]

Originally posted by Rob-bloods
Right on Charlie, IMHO if we cannot find a way to get Goodes'y into a game except throwing him into the ruck, then maybe we should trade him for a full back because he will not have a long career.

An athletic player 6'5" who can run all day, nippy for his height and we cannot use him! He is not Matthew Primus, he is not Jonathan Brown. Roos is an intelligent (ex) footballer who played very much his own type of game, we have to bloody well get Goodes'y to carve his own style on the game.

"...maybe we should trade him for a full back... "

"...athletic player 6'5" who can run all day, nippy for his height..."

6'5", run all day, nippy for his height. Trade him for a full back.

I'm sorry Rob, I don't know if I've read your post wrong, but do you know how ridiculous those two statements look when put together?!

How about this:

6'5", run all day, nippy for his height. <b><i>Try</i></b> him at full back!

[BAM_BAM]

Originally posted by Go Swannies
How far could he go? Maybe everyone should try playing out of position? Think what a nightmare that would be for other coaches pre-planned match ups.

I find this funny, and I'm not having a go D. So Roos could stand at the players race with a bucket with slips of paper with positions written on them, each player takes one before taking the field. (lol)

In all seriousness I agree with Charlie, he needs to be played in the midfield, working off the tap from our genuine Ruckmen and pumping the ball forward as quickly as possible. Or receiving it from a tap on at the edge of the square running 2m and loading up for a shot on goal (I realise he's not necessarily known lately for his great kicking at goal, but he can do it. Just needs to believe)

[Go Swannies]

Originally posted by Red
How about this:

6'5", run all day, nippy for his height. <b><i>Try</i></b> him at full back!

I think Goodes would be really wasted in a negating role. Eade tried to keep him as a disciplined position player and it was terrible to watch. And we'd be wasting his skills. It's his unpredictability, along with his athleticism, that makes him such a handfull. He didn't even do well when in a set forward position over the past few weeks either. I think we were just double-dipping using him as a ruckman, too. It wasn't his natural role but it really confused the opposition as to home to treat a ruckman who can run (or it did last year, anyway).

Although the long term limitations of this weekend's injury may be dire (I hope not), Adam having a few weeks off is not necessarily a bad thing. Firstly, the team have to deal without him - and we've seen how they can lift in adversity. And he needs to reconsider his footy - we put the world on his shoulders after the Brownlow and IF we get a few wins while he's out I think/hope we may again see those free thinking skills that he has a break a game open. That may not have happened if he'd just slogged through 22 rounds (and finals?)

[Go Swannies]

Originally posted by BAM_BAM
I find this funny, and I'm not having a go D. So Roos could stand at the players race with a bucket with slips of paper with positions written on them, each player takes one before taking the field. (lol)

Why do I have this terrible image of Leo at FF and Schneider as our ruckman?

[dendol]

Originally posted by Go Swannies
Why do I have this terrible image of Leo at FF and Schneider as our ruckman?

what if Saddo draws CHB???

[robbieando]

One things for sure Goodes isn't going to have the same impact for us if he is used mainly as a key position forward. When used in this role in the past he stuggled and indeed played his worst football in this position, he is a poor set shot at goal and as a forward he can't run off his man to the same effect as when he is the ruck. In the two full seasons that he has played in the ruck, he won a Brownlow, All Australian selection as a ruckman and won a Rising Star award.

I think he was unlucky to get injuried on Saturday, it could of happened at any stage of last season when he was doing the same bloody thing, and was the best player in the comp or it could of happened if he was playing at CHF. No one complained last season when he was playing in the ruck and was ripping up the competition, yet the second he gets injuried playing ruck we get the "oh we can't risk him here anymore, it was a useless idea in the first place. Best move him to a key position"

If he indeed is not going to be used as a true ruckman anymore, which would in my eyes be a mistake then he needs to be near the ball, either as a winger who can roam around the ground being the all important link man, or as a ruck-rover who can ruck at throw in's and be a dangerous prospect in the centre square at bounces, because if anything Goodes will never make it as a true Centre Half Forward, nor would the Swans game plan gain anything from him playing there. The talk of him becoming a Centre Half Back is just talk because in my eyes he isn't accountable enough to play the position, nor if he was to improve that area of his game, would he have the same impact as he would playing though the middle.

Adam Goodes is a very talented player who the Swans must be careful with because he needs to play a certain way to be of true value to us and if we keep trying him in position after position, he'll never become the player he should, if left alone in the middle of the park, as either a Ruckman, Ruck-rover or Winger he will be regarded as one of the best players to play the game when he retires.