Gun Midfeilders.

[footyhead]

It is obvious that is what we need, prefrabley two 0r three of them so that the current stock can be tailored around them.
The problem is that really talented players that you can build a team around, are generally groomed. For example the last three premeirship sides: Bris, Essendon, and North, all had gun players that they drafted and groomed.
It seems to me that to do this we need to get very high draft picks.
It would be a very big mistake for us to panick at the end of this year and to try and go out and recruit gun players. We still ned to mould this team. We must DRAFT young GUNS! (a very hard thing to do).
Because of this I think we are realistically still 5-10 years away from having a really good team.

[stellation]

Re: Gun Midfeilders.

Originally posted by footyhead
It is obvious that is what we need, prefrabley two 0r three of them so that the current stock can be tailored around them.
The problem is that really talented players that you can build a team around, are generally groomed. For example the last three premeirship sides: Bris, Essendon, and North, all had gun players that they drafted and groomed.
It seems to me that to do this we need to get very high draft picks.
It would be a very big mistake for us to panick at the end of this year and to try and go out and recruit gun players. We still ned to mould this team. We must DRAFT young GUNS! (a very hard thing to do).
Because of this I think we are realistically still 5-10 years away from having a really good team.

I honestly think we have some potential gun midfielders coming through (a couple in particular in Schneider and McVeigh). Unless Chris Judd has a younger brother that nominates, and for some reason wants to commit to living in Sydney, I think that the youngsters we have at the moment are (possibly) just as good a gamble as folks coming through the draft.

[sharp9]

Absolutely agree. We need a 2 or 3 genuine guns in midfield to win (not good players having a good year).

You cannot trade for these. Not possible in this day and age.

You might get one (Williams, Stevens, Brown) for 3-5 seasons but this is not the path to success....you have to sacrifice any chance at getting another one and your window is small.

Black was #32....how the hell someone with his skills was passed over I'll never know...and Schneider and Davey????

Seems to me that as far as midfielders go there has been a lot of emphasis placed on build as an 18 year old rather than skills.

Hopefully we have recruited highly skilled players who will take 3-5 to develop and the other supporters will ask "How the hell did they get Malceski at 54??? Schneider at 64???? And McGlone was on the @@@@ing rookie list for 3 years. Willoughby should have been top 10. What were our recruiters thinking?"

That would be nice.

[liz]

You don't have to have top 5 draft picks to find "gun" midfielders. It may increase your chances of getting one but there are plenty of examples of very good young players picked with choices outside of the top 10.

In recent years (as some examples)

Scott Thompson at Melbourne was taken around 15, 16 or 17
So was James Kelly at Geelong
So Nick Del Santo at the Saints
Nick Stevens was also a late teens pick
Mark Coughlan was taken at around 25
Black was a thirty something
Goodes was a forty something
Mitchell was a forty or fifty something and had been ignored in at least one draft for which he was eligible - it might have been two

There is plenty of quality to be found throughout the draft, particularly if you find the youngsters with the will to put in the hard yards and the determination to get the best out of themselves.

[Old Royboy]

Originally posted by sharp9

You cannot trade for these. Not possible in this day and age.

It is possible to trade, but unless there are favourable circumstances the price is way too high. Best possibility for us to trade for a gun cheaply is a combination of salary cap crunch at St Kilda and Lenny Hayes wanting to come home. Long odds!

[Go Swannies]

Originally posted by Old Royboy
It is possible to trade, but unless there are favourable circumstances the price is way too high. Best possibility for us to trade for a gun cheaply is a combination of salary cap crunch at St Kilda and Lenny Hayes wanting to come home. Long odds!

I don't think we need to - I think we've already got them. The same players who seemed to have an uncanny ability to find their next team mate with a short kick or pass last year are still there. The difference is confidence. This year they pass into open space (or the opposition) and take that extra second to see where the next Swan is and get tackled. Watching the Weagles midfield was like watching the Swans of last year and in the early rounds of this - the ball may pass through five players in a few seconds before it found one with space. I'm tired of watching Swans collide when they both go for the ball because they think each other won't make it. Early this season I thought it was great enthusiasm - now I see it as lack of faith (though the Pebbles/Bazza sissors-mark seems rehearsed).

THE DIFFERENCE IS NOT CRESSA! I don't remember seeing anything here last year saying that Cressa was our only skilled midfield. He was really useful (and canny and tough) - like Kirk and Crouch and, dare I say it, Fossie. But we have seen our midfield play with skill before (and against the best teams) - we just need it back.

A lot of people here seem prepared to write off Swans players very quickly and presume that every other team has better players. I can't wait for the gnashing of teeth if Roos again decides he has all the elements of the team he wants and does no trading again at the end of this year. I'm just waiting for the first RWO post suggesting that Schneider's best days are behind him.

[monopoly19]

Originally posted by Go Swannies
I don't think we need to - I think we've already got them. The same players who seemed to have an uncanny ability to find their next team mate with a short kick or pass last year are still there. The difference is confidence. This year they pass into open space (or the opposition) and take that extra second to see where the next Swan is and get tackled. Watching the Weagles midfield was like watching the Swans of last year and in the early rounds of this - the ball may pass through five players in a few seconds before it found one with space. I'm tired of watching Swans collide when they both go for the ball because they think each other won't make it. Early this season I thought it was great enthusiasm - now I see it as lack of faith (though the Pebbles/Bazza sissors-mark seems rehearsed).

THE DIFFERENCE IS NOT CRESSA! I don't remember seeing anything here last year saying that Cressa was our only skilled midfield. He was really useful (and canny and tough) - like Kirk and Crouch and, dare I say it, Fossie. But we have seen our midfield play with skill before (and against the best teams) - we just need it back.

I agree with your first paragraph, but I do think that the team in missing Cressa a lot, but more for the leadership and cohesion he provided. When our two best defensive midfielders are leading the way, I think there is a problem. While Fossie and Bolton are unlikely to ever become Voss/Judd/whoever else, I do think they can become as important as Cresswell was, if given time.

In about two years we've gone from having Kelly, Cresswell and Schwass in the midfield where Fosdike and Bolton were playing 3rd/4th/5th fiddle to a midfield where they are just about the leaders (or should be). I know that there's a general consensus that they are taking too long to get where we want them, but I reckon they can get there. A little bit of consistency is all that is needed - it's not as though they don't have the talent (eg. Fossie's left foot kick into our forward 50 that was just about perfect to the leading forward). Fosdike probably has better skills, while Bolton has the heart, and I'm not too worried about our future while they're still with us.

[Go Swannies]

Originally posted by monopoly19
I agree with your first paragraph, but I do think that the team in missing Cressa a lot, but more for the leadership and cohesion he provided. When our two best defensive midfielders are leading the way, I think there is a problem. While Fossie and Bolton are unlikely to ever become Voss/Judd/whoever else, I do think they can become as important as Cresswell was, if given time.

Leadership was something I overlooked. Right now we don't have Schauble directing the backs and Cressa isn't around to direct the midfield. So maybe we should be surprised we're coming as close as we are. Craig is our most senior fulltime back at present and I think he's too busy taking care of whatever major problem player he has been allocated.

Likewise Stewie has too many problems with his own game to lead from the front, as we need him to. He does direct and then becomes the player who makes the error. We're told he's super-fit but he doesn't look it and spends a fair bit of time on the bench. And what's happened to the Tiger? A few weeks ago he was really positive and doing a lot of on-field directing. Now he looks like he's surprised to find the ball is round. Is there a confidence-sapping problem at the club that we don't know about? Anyone been to training to see if they are still getting on as well as they did last year?

[footyhead]

Originally posted by monopoly19
. Fosdike probably has better skills, while Bolton has the heart, and I'm not too worried about our future while they're still with us.

Look this is the point I am making, both of these guys are very good second string midfeilders at their best. An out and out champion midfeilder is what is required here (maybe two), and when you have them you know it within the first or second year - ala chris Judd, James Hird, FIGJAM (Buckley) - all of these were identifiable champions second year in. Bolton and Fosdike are unfortunatley not, so you better stop looking to them to save our team.

[monopoly19]

Originally posted by footyhead
Look this is the point I am making, both of these guys are very good second string midfeilders at their best. An out and out champion midfeilder is what is required here (maybe two), and when you have them you know it within the first or second year - ala chris Judd, James Hird, FIGJAM (Buckley) - all of these were identifiable champions second year in. Bolton and Fosdike are unfortunatley not, so you better stop looking to them to save our team.

What I'm saying is that I don't neccesarily think we need a out and out champion midfielder in the same way you describe it. When you look at Brisbane's midfield, I think part of their success has come from the cohesion that the fab-4 bring to the midfield and the team. Yes, they are all extremely talented, and no-one is suggesting that Bolton or Fosdike are going to suddenly turn into Michael Voss overnight, but I think our midfield could become highly effective if they get more experience and more confidence.

That's not to say I wouldn't love having someone with the skills of Judd/Buckley/Voss in our team, but I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice too much for them. Afterall, look at the rabble Collingwood is without Buckley.

[ScottH]

One thing I notice about the good players like Voss (Last Qtr Rnd 1) and Kelly, they could dive on a ball which stops their momentum, while the opponents are still on their feet running past the ball, and bounce up with the ball to feed it off, quickly. Kelly did this repeatedly. Voss is the only other one I've noticed who does it regularly. It is not a great skill, it is just a smart thing to do. I see many opportunities for this type of "skill". and not many players seem to have an inkling of how to win the contested loose ball.

[Newbie]

Originally posted by Go Swannies
I don't think we need to - I think we've already got them. The same players who seemed to have an uncanny ability to find their next team mate with a short kick or pass last year are still there. The difference is confidence.

I am sorry to bust your bubble but a player with 100 games experience still is not able to maintain their playing levels through thicks and thins will never be. Confidence or potential could be an excuse for a 20 gamer but for 100 game players, the only thing matters is "perform".

We do lack deft-touch players around the stopage. We have none in the team.

[penga]

Originally posted by Newbie
We have none in the team.

so you think we should trade schneider, mcveigh, buchanan and bevan to get black?

watch our fab four develop, just give them time

[Newbie]

Originally posted by penga
so you think we should trade schneider, mcveigh, buchanan and bevan to get black?

watch our fab four develop, just give them time

Never advocate trading of any younger players. They dont have much trade values unless they are exceptionally talent. In frankness though, we dont have enough players with natural football talents. Schneider and McVeigh are rare commodity in the team. We have an abundance of atheletics turned footballers. I would not mind to see us trading one or two of this crop (who are reaching their peaks and thus should have high trade value) to balance our stocks.

With Kirk, Mathews, Crouch and now Bevan and Fixter, we do have a very strong list of defensive midfielders. They are doing a great job whenever they are on the park, but the opposition would never have to be too worry if three or even two of them are at the centre square bounce. This is one of the disparity of our list.