The Rose Tinted Glasses...

[boroboy]

are off.

Two weeks ago I was still convinced we could have a real pop at the Flag this year - I favoured the 'half full' approach to this seasons performances as opposed to the 'half empty'. There sinking realisation setting in this morning that we're just not good enough.

I worry when I think of Ron Barassi at last years end of season dinner - when he said if we didn't improve this season then last year would have been a waste of time. We've gone backwards.

I worry when I see players like Maxfield, Wilo, Ball, Schauble who are past thier peak and don't have long left with no immediate ready made replacements.

I worry when I see Roos playing Wilo when he was obviously unfit - taking him to Perth was simply negligent.

I worry when I see Roos not empowering the youngsters like he did last year - why not have faith in a fully fit youngster as opposed to a half fit senior?

I worry when I see James, Dempster, McGlone, Rogers not getting game time, and McVeigh wondering what he has to do to play four quarters and be told his place in the team is safe.

I worry when I see Doyle come on.

I worry when I watch performances mirror exactly what we saw in the last tweo years of Eade - poor option, non accountable footy.

I'm fed up of watching Brisbane win flags. Or Adelaide. Or West Coast. I still don't understand why a club with the luxury of being the single team in Australia's biggest city, and access to the biggest sponsors can't get it right on the field.

I'm really worried that last night was indicative of where we really are - years away from having the opportunity to win a flag. And I'm worried that Roos is increasingly being found out and outcoached.

Still - there's always next week. Bring on the Lions....

[Charlie]

Ok, I too have come to the point where I think it's just going to be far too hard.

But years away from even the opportunity to win a flag?

I'd like to see you explain that statement.

[NMWBloods]

I can see the core of a side that could win a premiership in 2006-2007.

I can also see the core of a side that simply repeats our efforts of 97-01.

[Nico]

On coaching did anyone notice against Geelong, at the 20 minute mark of the lastQ that all our players were in the defensive half.

Up by 4 points at the time did we go defensive too early or was it a master stroke by Thompson to simply force a goal. They got their goal but before it happened there was no effort to get players back into our forward half.

Suspect the order came from our coach's box.

[chammond]

Re: The Rose Tinted Glasses...

Originally posted by boroboy I'm really worried that last night was indicative of where we really are - years away from having the opportunity to win a flag. And I'm worried that Roos is increasingly being found out and outcoached.

Concurred with most of your points (although I'm not sure what Doyle's done so wrong?), but can't agree with this last bit.

I'm not a Roos fan in particular (I would have been just as happy with Wallace), but even I can see that Roos is clearly one of the better AFL coaches, and the Swans coaching group in general have a very professional feel about them.

They do occasionally make errors on match day, but glaring mistakes are few and far between. Roos might not be as astute as Eade, but he seems to be one of the best motivators in the business.

Eade and Roos have both been caught in the dilemma of trying to bring on new players while needing to maintain interest for the supporters by winning enough games to make the finals. If Roos took as long as say, Mark Thompson, to build a successful team, the Swans would be bankrupt.

As far as I can see, Roos is doing a pretty good job at the moment. We've won 6 out of the last 9, and the 3 losses have been at AAMI Stadium, Skilled Stadium and Subiaco . . . . very difficult tasks against teams pushing for top four spots.

If, at the start of the season, I'd been told we would lose those 3 games, I would have just shrugged it off as of no consequence.

The fact is we don't have the team to win a flag. With Cresswell retired, Saddo out, and Goodes hobbling, we don't even have the team to finish in the top four. If we can finish 5th or 6th and get a home final, Roos will have done a brilliant job.

Still - there's always next week. Bring on the Lions....

Now that I can agree with . . .

[NMWBloods]

Re: Re: The Rose Tinted Glasses...

Originally posted by chammond
As far as I can see, Roos is doing a pretty good job at the moment. We've won 6 out of the last 9, and the 3 losses have been at AAMI Stadium, Skilled Stadium and Subiaco . . . . very difficult tasks against teams pushing for top four spots.

If, at the start of the season, I'd been told we would lose those 3 games, I would have just shrugged it off as of no consequence.

But this, yet again, is glossing over the weakness of our side. Consider our wins and how poor the opposition has been and how we've barely been able to put them away. Also consider that Freo have lost 4 of their past 5 home games and how important this game was.

I'd be quite happy to have dropped those three games if most of our others were promising, but they haven't been.

[robbieando]

Re: Re: The Rose Tinted Glasses...

Originally posted by chammond
Eade and Roos have both been caught in the dilemma of trying to bring on new players while needing to maintain interest for the supporters by winning enough games to make the finals. If Roos took as long as say, Mark Thompson, to build a successful team, the Swans would be bankrupt.

But how then do we ever improve enough to win a premiership???

The coaching staff shouldn't be in the business of picking a team to make sure we stay afloat by just doing enough to make the finals year by year, they should be in the business of looking to the future when building a side in the hope of winning a premiership.

It shouldn't be up to the coaching staff to maintain interest, thats why we have people like Colless and Co in charge of the club. I just hope Colless and the board aren't putting pressure on Roos to do this.

I'm sick of the club papering over the cracks time and time again. We had a great young side in 1996 which we just allowed to get older and older. It got to the stage where it was clear to everyone but the club itself that the team couldn't win a flag. So when Paul Roos became coach I like many of others was pleased to hear that we would be going with youth and a long term plan to rebuild the playing list.

After success in our first year I can't help but think that Roos and Co are papering over the cracks is yet again. I hope like hell this isn't the case and Roos is indeed looking to the future. I hope that its only injuries that have stopped us challenging for a flag and not Roos favouring expirence over youth. I hope I'm wrong, but if I'm not I can't help but think we are heading in the same direction of the Hawks.

[liz]

Re: Re: Re: The Rose Tinted Glasses...

Originally posted by robbieando
But how then do we ever improve enough to win a premiership???

It is a very tough thing to do, and the magnificence of the Lions in recent years (with no sign of it abating) makes it an even scarier prospect.

After success in our first year I can't help but think that Roos and Co are papering over the cracks is yet again. I hope like hell this isn't the case and Roos is indeed looking to the future. I hope that its only injuries that have stopped us challenging for a flag and not Roos favouring expirence over youth. I hope I'm wrong, but if I'm not I can't help but think we are heading in the same direction of the Hawks.

It's way way too early to say this. What we need to be looking at is the trading and drafting strategy over the next two or three years before such an assessment can be made. I admit that I would rather hear Roos saying that he is going to continue drafting new kids and let them develop naturally than the current talk of trading for experienced players, but we need to see what actually eventuates, IMO, before we start jumping up and down.

The question is not whether the current team can win this year's premiership. I think it has been clear for at least a couple of months that it wasn't going to happen this year. The question is more how far the current squad is from being a contender. After a prelim final last year it was easy to think that the answer was "not too far away". Now we all have doubts.

The relative lack of depth - which hopefully will be addressed by quality youth coming through over the next two years or so - means that most things have to go right for this Swans outfit. But even ignoring all the other injuries we've had this year, if you plugged a 2003 vintage Adam Goodes into the current team we'd probably be a couple of games better off than we are at the moment. That might not still be enough to win the thing this year, but might be a better reflection of what the squad is capable of.

Kirk and Barry have clearly shown that they can sustain the form from last year - ie it wasn't a flash in the pan.

There has been tangible improvement from the likes of Hall, Crouch and O'Keefe.

Bevan has burst onto the scene and shown he is able to hold his own at senior level.

Most of the players who haven't contributed as much as last year can have this explained by injury - Davis and Schneider being the obvious two.

So the squad hasn't been static - that would be a real worry.

There is little wrong with most of the players regularly getting a senior game for the Swans. They are solid AFL level players. However - and as Roos keeps saying - they don't have those two or three stars to play alongside. Stick a Lappin or a Judd into the midfield and the rest would start to look like better players than they currently do. Getting these players is tough though - you usually need to find them in the draft and that takes a bit of luck.

We have one, one who showed last year he is able to instill confidence and flair into his team mates. It is risky to rely on one, but if we get him back next year, things could look very different.

I'm not trying to put my head in the sand and pretend that all will necessarily be hunky dory next year. The lack of a replacement for Ball and coverage for Schauble are concerns.

But building a premiership squad is no easy task and surely we need to judge Roos and Ireland over a longer period than two years?

[swans_premiers]

errr Brisbane lost to Geelong and Freo away too, and by much more than us, but they are certantities for the premiership?????????????

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by swans_premiers
errr Brisbane lost to Geelong and Freo away too, and by much more than us, but they are certantities for the premiership?????????????

Surely you are kidding?!? I expected someone would try this comparison, but comparing us to Brisbane is just ridiculous!

Let's see... apart from those two games above, they have lost only 2 only other games, whereas we have lost 6.

Against Collingwood, W Bulldogs, Adelaide, and Hawthorn, instead of just winning, they thumped them!!

Against Richmond and Melbourne at home, and Essendon away, instead of losing they won!!

They are on top of the leader with 13 wins and 137%. We are 8th with 9 wins and 100%.

And they beat us.

Not to mention premierships in each of the 3 previous years...

FFS!!

[swansrule100]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Surely you are kidding?!? I expected someone would try this comparison, but comparing us to Brisbane is just ridiculous!

comparing anyone to brisbane is ridiculous ....they are my vote for the greatest side ever.... dominant in the most even period of the competition!

[chammond]

Re: Re: Re: The Rose Tinted Glasses...

Originally posted by NMWBloods
But this, yet again, is glossing over the weakness of our side. Consider our wins and how poor the opposition has been and how we've barely been able to put them away. Also consider that Freo have lost 4 of their past 5 home games and how important this game was.

I'd be quite happy to have dropped those three games if most of our others were promising, but they haven't been.

Nah, it's just the half-full glass argument . . . I prefer to see those games as very encouraging, as proving that we aren't a one-dimensional team - that we can grind out tough wins.

Six wins from nine games is a good result in anyone's book.

But how then do we ever improve enough to win a premiership???

Well might you ask, Robbie! But the fact that we don't like it, doesn't make it untrue.

I suspect that the solution is to have coaches and administrators who think outside the established wisdom.

A bit like the Bullies and the Roos . . . I'm sure they both often wonder how to succeed without supporters or money. Yet one club regularly succeeds while the other regularly fails . . . . what's the secret formula?

[boroboy]

Re: Re: The Rose Tinted Glasses...

Originally posted by chammond
Concurred with most of your points (although I'm not sure what Doyle's done so wrong?), but can't agree with this last bit.

Yep - 12 hours on and and I feel a tad guilty...that was a cheap shot at Doyle and uncalled for - he certainly played no worse than several others last night. I do question his awareness to read play, and he should be taking more contested marks with his height - but I'm sure he and Roosy are working on that...

[ScottH]

His marking last year wa pretty good. I was impressed with his short burst on the ground esp. up forward.

But this year he does seem to be struggling in that department.

[chammond]

Originally posted by hemsleys
His marking last year wa pretty good. I was impressed with his short burst on the ground esp. up forward.

But this year he does seem to be struggling in that department.

Yeah, that's been the biggest disappointment. I reckon his rucking is progressing, albeit slowly. But in previous seasons he has shown a bit up forward, which seems to have vanished lately.

Then again, he used to get injured a lot when he played forward . . . .?