Rebuiling a new team and a new culture at the swans

[footyhead]

I have been saying for a while that the Swans need to develop high draft picks into Key Position players, rather than trade away draft picks for recycled players. I have also said that good teams and coaches tend to do this when they rebuild a team. Unfortunately some here want to argue the point. Well guess what ? Terry Wallace agrees, and is about to follow in the steps of his esteemed peers and predessesors ala Pagan, Sheedy, Malthouse and Mathews:
"No more short-term fixes
One of the most encouraging statements Wallace made when he was unveiled as the Tigers' new coach on Tuesday was the need for a club to develop its own players.
Wallace said supporters wanted to see players play their first and 250th games at the one club and this will be music to the ears of Tigers fans, who for too long have seen their club waste draft selections on or trade for players from rival clubs. "

http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=165247

When will the Swans learn ?
We need to develop our own KPP who can create a strong team with a strong team psyche. Who in the team positions of FF CHF Ruck CHF FB Have been born and bred within the club ? (Adam ? He's not even a definite KPP, and he's a one season champion, maybe two if you include the rising star year as ruckman). The point is the Rebuild is far from complete.
Let me repeat that for you people : the rebuild is far from complete, unfortunately complacency has crept into the Swans camp once again, long before anything has truly been achieved.
Don't say in ten years that you were not warned.
Unfortunately I think the tragic circumstances, of this weeks loss to the kangaroos will cloud the issue at hand. IE this team as it stands does not have the power to truly challenge for a premiership. Will this administration and this Football department find the power and the courage to truly rebuild this team into a real contender, not a pretend contender ?

[dendol]

Roos started out last year supposedly building from the ground up. I hope that last year wasnt an over-achievement which has led to us keeping more players than we really should have.

Remember that both Richmond and Hawthorn overachieved a couple of years back and look where they ended up this year. Both have over-rated lists and reckon they need to draft quality kids for the next few years. If we suddenly think that we have a list that is going to contend for a flag after our '03 season, and only need to trade for a few gun players, are we going to end up the same way? Just like we did after '96.

There is a fine line, and I for one hope that Roos knows exactly how close he is to crossing it.

[DST]

Footyhead, once again your statements are far to general and wide sweeping to agree with.

With the appointment of Andrew Ireland and Paul Roos, we have kept all our draft picks in the last two years and used them to draft young talent. With retirements and our weak midfield we have used our high picks to go with young midfielders, something as we have all agreed was needed at the time. Two of the picks have been smokies in Davis and Erikson a young raw ruckman and furture KP palyer.

As for young KP players we also have Lewis Roberts Thompson and Mark Powell that have been drafted specifically for these roles.

Yes we needed to rebuild the club and we have started that process 2 years ago. This is a work in process and your are not going to see the results of these two draft and whether it worked until at least another 2 years yet.

With this years draft looking good for young KP & Ruckman, you would expect our first two picks will be used to bolster these requirements.

DST

[footyhead]

Originally posted by DST


Yes we needed to rebuild the club and we have started that process 2 years ago. This is a work in process and your are not going to see the results of these two draft and whether it worked until at least another 2 years yet.

With this years draft looking good for young KP & Ruckman, you would expect our first two picks will be used to bolster these requirements.

DST

Good response, and I agree, so far so good (except I would have cut our list a little deeper both in 2002 and 2003 - the players who got to stay would have appreciated it more).
However the chineese wispers are saying that early draft picks maybe traded this year. That would be a terrible mistake.

[DST]

Originally posted by dendol
Roos started out last year supposedly building from the ground up. I hope that last year wasnt an over-achievement which has led to us keeping more players than we really should have.

Remember that both Richmond and Hawthorn overachieved a couple of years back and look where they ended up this year. Both have over-rated lists and reckon they need to draft quality kids for the next few years. If we suddenly think that we have a list that is going to contend for a flag after our '03 season, and only need to trade for a few gun players, are we going to end up the same way? Just like we did after '96.

There is a fine line, and I for one hope that Roos knows exactly how close he is to crossing it.

Dendol, over acheiving last year meant nothing to our recruiting policy. We stuck to the stated aim of keeping our picks and drafting youngsters.

No use in cutting deeply into the list for the sake of it and ending up with 20+ players who have played less than 10 games. In that situation the club will only go one way and that is backwards.

What you end up with is a St Kilda situation where they had no depth and spent the best part of the last 6 years at the bottom of the table going nowhere and picking up concession draft picks. They may look okay now, but I for one won't accept the club just dropping it's bundle and to pick up early draft concessions. It's a degrading way of doing things and any success they have in the future will be tainted with the fact that they bulit the team from years of intrenched failure.

DST

[Barry Schneider]

I thought Pagan is regarded as one of the great recyclers of all time.
Bris have Lynch,Michael.Pike, who are not born and bred while Brown is a father son pick.Take them out of the team and they lose plenty.
I think Roos is well aware we lack quality but having so many young players in the squad I am sure he will trade some draft picks for some experienced players.
If we don't have quality KPP then we have to bite the bullet and get some.Schauble,Barry Hall,Ball, have been fair pick ups.

[chammond]

Fhead, you devil you . . . you've learnt how to use a spell-checker! . . . . well almost.

Now, if you could just try a bit harder, and look up a topic called g.r.a.m.m.a.r.

And while you're at it, check on the meaning of "cliche" and "motherhood statement".

[footyhead]

Are you a school teacher bitch ?

[footyhead]

Originally posted by Barry Schneider
I thought Pagan is regarded as one of the great recyclers of all time.
Bris have Lynch,Michael.Pike, who are not born and bred while Brown is a father son pick.Take them out of the team and they lose plenty.
I think Roos is well aware we lack quality but having so many young players in the squad I am sure he will trade some draft picks for some experienced players.
If we don't have quality KPP then we have to bite the bullet and get some.Schauble,Barry Hall,Ball, have been fair pick ups.

No we need to draft and develope them. This is a process that takes longer but gets better results.

[Nico]

Footyhead, well said. Under the thread "Assessing the List" I pointed out 7 areas where as a club we are lacking. The personnel is far from what is needed to maintain even where we are, given that other clubs down the list can be expected to improve next year. It is getting tougher each year.

I echo your sentiments and took it as more of a warning rather than a criticism of what the club is doing. I wish that we could get an update from the club of how our youth is developing. I am sure they see them through "different eyes" than the normal spectator.

[Barry Schneider]

Originally posted by footyhead
No we need to draft and develope them. This is a process that takes longer but gets better results.

There are a few problems doing that.
Firstly if there are talented KPP in the draft we won't get first crack at them.
Secondly if it is a poor draft do we just wait another year?
Thirdly there is the Anthony Rocca scenario.

I can't see the problem using our salary cap advantage and draft picks to cherry pick some of the quality young players that may come onto the market due to salary cap pressures at other clubs.

[footyhead]

I'm just saying that according to the track record (IE what has worked with other teams, and what has not worked) , a simple ability to identify and groom talent from an early age, and meld it into a team, is the way to win flags.
The teams who have tried to trade their way into contention have failed.
It is not just me saying this, it is considerd to be quite widley excepted wisdom, now.
Certain teams went down the trading route early in the modern drafting era, and some of those have been loath to admit their mistakes and to change their practices.
The swans are in this catogory me thinks.

[dendol]

Originally posted by DST
Dendol, over acheiving last year meant nothing to our recruiting policy. We stuck to the stated aim of keeping our picks and drafting youngsters.

No use in cutting deeply into the list for the sake of it and ending up with 20+ players who have played less than 10 games. In that situation the club will only go one way and that is backwards.

What you end up with is a St Kilda situation where they had no depth and spent the best part of the last 6 years at the bottom of the table going nowhere and picking up concession draft picks. They may look okay now, but I for one won't accept the club just dropping it's bundle and to pick up early draft concessions. It's a degrading way of doing things and any success they have in the future will be tainted with the fact that they bulit the team from years of intrenched failure.

DST

Had we finished lower down the ladder, we would have had a much lower draft pick than the #16 we used to draft Willoughby. I know its too early to tell how he and Schmidt will turn out, but generally you'd say that the lower the draft pick, the better the chances of drafting a gun player.

The whole point of rebuilding is to draft the best possible talent available. By finishing 3rd in 2003, we started with a high draft pick, and could have possibly over-rated a list which is no where near good enough to win a flag - a point which arguably has proven true in 2004.

Had we finished lower in '03, we would have been looking for improvement up the ladder this year, and Roos would not have had the pressure of making this team a flag contender so soon. You see the folly of this when he has clearly played injured players in Davis, Goodes, Williams, in hope of staying in touch with the top teams.

I know how great it felt last year to get to the prelim (no one can ever take away the euphoria of the Port finals win), and I dont regret the success we had, but I just hope that that same success hasnt ironically stymied our rebuilding process.

I know injuries and other external factors (damn rain!!) played a part in our season thus far, but all things considered, you'd have to say '04 has been slightly disappointing when compared to the heights we reached last year.

And I bet the Saints fans wont be thinking about the pain they endured if they win a flag in the next year or three. In fact, Im thinking it will make it all the more sweeter.

[swansrule100]

if they didnt trade for anyone good ud probably complain they werent looking to the football market!

i think the swans have come a long way in the last 10 years... to me the move in 1982 was basically a joke until about 1995 when they finally stopped pissing around and did something... (perhaps before that with the appointment of barassi) its a painfully slow process but we are going in the right direction... and roosy is the man to take us there

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by footyhead
However the chineese wispers are saying that early draft picks maybe traded this year. That would be a terrible mistake.

Depends what you trade them for. Some young KPPs in the draft might be nice, but they also take quite a few years to develop and may actually never do so. If you have a team that is just a few years away from maturing and developing into a very side, then maybe you can consider trading high draft picks for some good young talent (say around 23-25yo).

As a hypothetical, if we could trade early draft picks for a couple of very good players we need (eg: ruck, midfielder or CHB) around 24yo, then that would complement our existing side fairly well. As our current young players develop over the next couple of years and our mid 20s players continue to mature, this sort of talent would fit in nicely.

Then the following year or perhaps the one after, you could make sure you keep your high draft picks. By the time they are ready to take on full responsibility the players that are now 24 or so, will start winding back. This is how you can develop the cycle (of finite length of course) of a solid team.