Our backline...

[CureTheSane]

For a couple of years I have been under the impression that we need a KP backman.
But now I am reassessing what we need, and I don't think it is a priority.

They are pretty solid IMO.
Quiet achievers if you like.

Our forward line is strong IMO, with Hall, O'Loughlin, Davis, Schneider, and with players like Nicks and O'Keefe and Goodes and even Ball and perhaps Doyle in the future, being able to play either forward or back.

Starting to think maybe a midfielder would be our first priority this year.

[ROK Lobster]

It looks much better when Schauble is fit. It looked pretty ordinary with no Schauble, no Barry and Goodes on one leg against Port Adelaide a few months ago. It has been bandied around a bit, and probably by you CTS but a big fella who can play fullback in Syd and CHB on the big grounds would be my choice (thankfully for the club it is not). We have a LOT of young midfielders, hopefully one or two of them will make the grade. Hopefully Bevan, that kid is quickly becoming my favourite player. A #14 of the future?

[Barry Schneider]

I agree with that.I was hoping LRT might get some experience in the backline this year but injury has stuffed that.We do need a top class midfielder but I am hoping Schneider with fitness might show something next year and I hope McVeigh keeps improving.
If there is the opportunity to get a class midfielder this year we should throw the kitchen sink to get him.

[midaro]

Re: Our backline...

Originally posted by CureTheSane
Starting to think maybe a midfielder would be our first priority this year.

Absolutely, I've held this opinion for about 3 years.
The truth is, we have about the worst midfield in the league.
The only true class player we have - Williams - is past his prime.
Kirk is a great tagger, but as a teams number 1 midfielder... well, no comment.
J Bolton is a workhorse, but has wretched disposal.
Fosdike, Mathews, Crouch (as a midfielder) are all a dime a dozen.

But, we should have hope:
Kennelly, Schneider, Bevan, McVeigh and Buchannon, are all potentials, not to mention those from last year's draft that haven't had a go yet.

So, I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water on this. If we just took our 3 compulsory choices in the draft and did no trading at all, I wouldn't be concerned. If we do trade - yes, it should be for a midfielder. But, who?

Aside:
Whenever I look at our midfield, I realise just how good both our forward and back lines, are.

[chammond]

Re: Re: Our backline...

Originally posted by midaro
Absolutely, I've held this opinion for about 3 years.
The truth is, we have about the worst midfield in the league.
The only true class player we have - Williams - is past his prime.
Kirk is a great tagger, but as a teams number 1 midfielder... well, no comment.
J Bolton is a workhorse, but has wretched disposal.
Fosdike, Mathews, Crouch (as a midfielder) are all a dime a dozen.

But, we should have hope:
Kennelly, Schneider, Bevan, McVeigh and Buchannon, are all potentials, not to mention those from last year's draft that haven't had a go yet.

So, I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water on this. If we just took our 3 compulsory choices in the draft and did no trading at all, I wouldn't be concerned. If we do trade - yes, it should be for a midfielder. But, who?

Aside:
Whenever I look at our midfield, I realise just how good both our forward and back lines, are.

Can't see one thing that I agree with in that post.

Leaving opinion aside, the truth is that we don't have an outstanding attack or defence . . . better than average, but not near the best.

But we do have one of the best, if not the best, contested ball-winning midfield groups.

We have a tough and determined midfield . . . I think if we could just add a player with some slick clearance skills at stoppages, we would be comparable with any midfield in the comp.

[NMWBloods]

Re: Re: Re: Our backline...

Originally posted by chammond
Leaving opinion aside, the truth is that we don't have an outstanding attack or defence . . . better than average, but not near the best.

I think our attack is one of the best in the competition - Hall, O'Loughlin, Davis, O'Keefe, Schneider - is very potent.

Our defence is workmanlike and relies on co-operation.

But we do have one of the best, if not the best, contested ball-winning midfield groups.

We have a tough and determined midfield . . . I think if we could just add a player with some slick clearance skills at stoppages, we would be comparable with any midfield in the comp.

I think our midfield is the weakest part of our team, although I don't think it's the worst in the league.

It's tough but lacks class.

We are 11th in total disposals and 16th in total kicks.

We are second in hard ball gets, which is hardly surprising given we force more stoppages than anyone else. We can get the ball, but not do much with it. I'd note also the Carlton are leading hard ball gets this year.

We are 15th in inside 50s (Carlton are 16th) so the two best teams at getting the hard ball are the two worse at getting it inside 50. Despite this low I50s, we are equal 5th in terms of converting these I50s, hence showing how potent our forward line can be. We are also 4th in terms of marks I50s per I50.

In terms of going coast-to-coast (one end of the ground to the other and scoring) we are clearly the worst in the competition.

In clearances we are 10th.

Most of this points to the issue with our midfield - they work and try to lock the ball up, but lack the skill and class to get it into our forward line effectively enough and often enough to score more.

[mja]

Fox web site says Carlton are chasing Shane Crawford.
He is a NSW boy... (he ran the City to Surf last week so must lie Sydney a bit). Do we need / want him?

[chammond]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Our backline...

Originally posted by NMWBloods
I think our attack is one of the best in the competition - Hall, O'Loughlin, Davis, O'Keefe, Schneider - is very potent.

Our defence is workmanlike and relies on co-operation.

I think our midfield is the weakest part of our team, although I don't think it's the worst in the league.

It's tough but lacks class.

We are 11th in total disposals and 16th in total kicks.

We are second in hard ball gets, which is hardly surprising given we force more stoppages than anyone else. We can get the ball, but not do much with it. I'd note also the Carlton are leading hard ball gets this year.

We are 15th in inside 50s (Carlton are 16th) so the two best teams at getting the hard ball are the two worse at getting it inside 50. Despite this low I50s, we are equal 5th in terms of converting these I50s, hence showing how potent our forward line can be. We are also 4th in terms of marks I50s per I50.

Er, does this confirm what I said . . . . that our forward line is better than average, but not near the best? Or have I misunderstood?

In terms of going coast-to-coast (one end of the ground to the other and scoring) we are clearly the worst in the competition.

In clearances we are 10th.

Most of this points to the issue with our midfield - they work and try to lock the ball up, but lack the skill and class to get it into our forward line effectively enough and often enough to score more.

Well . . . . I think that Kirk and Williams have the necessary skill and class, and I suspect that Crouch may have also if given sufficient chance to develop.

Bolton adds grunt and plenty of possession, and Mathews is a more than useful back-up. I'm looking forward to seeing Bevan given an on-ball role, and I think the proposal to give Kennelly a permanent midfield role also has definite merit.

I think our weakness in midfield is not so much a particular lack in the players we've got, but more that we haven't enough quality on-ball personnel to maintain a high level of competitiveness for the whole match.

It would be nice to bring in a ready-made "Judd", but I think even a lesser recruit, say of the level of Heath Scotland or Phil Read, could lift our midfield into the top bracket . . . . and I don't think it would cost the earth to get a player of that type.

[NMWBloods]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Our backline...

Originally posted by chammond
Er, does this confirm what I said . . . . that our forward line is better than average, but not near the best? Or have I misunderstood?

Possibly!! It shows that despite the low number of I50s, our forward line is pretty effective at converting opportunities and taking marks I50. What that means is our low scoring is the result of our midfield, not our forward line, which is one of the best in the comp.

Well . . . . I think that Kirk and Williams have the necessary skill and class, and I suspect that Crouch may have also if given sufficient chance to develop.

Kirk is a great in-and-under player and link man, but not really one to break the lines. Williams was, but past his time. Crouch has the speed, but lacks the kicking ability.

Bolton adds grunt and plenty of possession, and Mathews is a more than useful back-up. I'm looking forward to seeing Bevan given an on-ball role, and I think the proposal to give Kennelly a permanent midfield role also has definite merit.

I would still like to see Mathews tried in the centre, just to see whether he can make a good link man with his ability to gather the ball. Bolton makes the useful third string midfielder, relying on grunt and simple possessions. I think Bevan could be very good in the midfielder, mixing toughness with a bit of dash.

I think our weakness in midfield is not so much a particular lack in the players we've got, but more that we haven't enough quality on-ball personnel to maintain a high level of competitiveness for the whole match.

It would be nice to bring in a ready-made "Judd", but I think even a lesser recruit, say of the level of Heath Scotland or Phil Read, could lift our midfield into the top bracket . . . . and I don't think it would cost the earth to get a player of that type.

Yep, someone relatively quick with a good kick and good ball sense. I think a Scotland type or an Adkins from WC.

[Bleed Red Blood]

Personally, I don't want to recruit a midfielder.Just a ruckman and a young full/centre half forward.

[barry]

I know this is a dangerous philosophy in footy clubs, thinking we should get a top-up midfielder while Hall and Schuable are in their prime, but I cant help thinking that getting even a crawford type, as long as it didnt cost us too much, would be worth it. We have quite a few young midfielders, so in a couple of years the midfield may not be the problem. Crawford could bridge that gap.

[NMWBloods]

Yep - I agree. Occasional top-ups at the right price don't hurt (look at Williams) and would be valuable while our younger midfielders are still developing.

[midaro]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Our backline...

We are 15th in inside 50s (Carlton are 16th) so the two best teams at getting the hard ball are the two worse at getting it inside 50. Despite this low I50s, we are equal 5th in terms of converting these I50s, hence showing how potent our forward line can be. We are also 4th in terms of marks I50s per I50.

Originally posted by chammond
Er, does this confirm what I said . . . . that our forward line is better than average, but not near the best? Or have I misunderstood?

IMO our forward line is very much elite.

Hall, O'Loughlin, Davis, Schneider, O'Keefe (+1) - IMO no other team can match that for class (consistency due to injuries is another matter).

IMO if we are ONLY 5th in terms of converting I50s, and 4th in terms of marks I50s per I50, it may possibly be attributed to poor quality of delivery, above and beyond the low quantity.

IMO our midfield is terrible.

Here's an exercise: Find an AFL team, whose best midfielder wouldn't instantly become our best midfielder, if he was recruited in the off season. Good Luck

Some teams you'll have to get to midfielder 3 or 4 before you get to the Kirk/Bolton level.

BTW That said, I'm for the development from within option.

[thommo]

The reason you all think our midfield is so bad is that they get bad delivery from the ruck. Ball probably wins about 50 percent of the taps but when hes off in the forward line, down back or on the bench having a breather as is often the case for half a game, we end up with nothing just doyle/pinch hitter. As such we get nol delivery and any that we do get is usually of a poor standard.

What we need is an excellent Ruckman as you all know Ball wont be around forever......

[Schneiderman]

As far as midfielders go, we now have Schmidt, Willoughby and McVeigh, all three of whom have shown talent in the youth leagues. If they can continue to develop they may well yet become superstars.

IMO we need an experienced and talented midfielder to teach the new kids. With Cresswell gone and Willo fading, we need a new role model. I personally would love to see Crawford at the Swans. Their are also some very talented midfielders at Adelaide that may become excess at the end of this year.

Lastly, our ruck division could do with a top-up. Ball probably only has one more year in him, so a seasoned ruckman (Biglands?) would round out the team perfectly, and give time for Eriksen to find his feet.