Lies, damned lies and... dead British Prime Ministers

[midaro]

Ok, so I was cruising http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/playerpages.html and thought I'd put up some numbers for comment.

Player Pos. Clng. Ave.
Adam Goodes 1258 184 14.63
Jude Bolton 919 104 11.32
Nic Fosdike 869 88 10.13
Gerrard Bennett 240 24 10.00
Nick Davis 928 92 9.91
Rowan Warfe 708 68 9.60
Andrew Schauble 932 86 9.23
Paul Williams 1855 164 8.84
Jared Crouch 1419 124 8.74
Nathan Buckley 2695 232 8.61
Jason Sadd. 1583 132 8.34
Brad Seymour 909 75 8.25
Daryn Cresswell 2700 222 8.22
Anthony Kout. 1818 143 7.87
James Hird 1441 111 7.70
Ben Mathews 1425 108 7.58
Stuart Maxfield 1562 118 7.55
Michael OLough. 1736 128 7.37
Michael Voss 2278 165 7.24
Andrew McLeod 2342 164 7.00
Daniel McPher. 1127 78 6.92

Does it mean anything?
Goodes the next Kouta? not.
Frosty a good user of the ball. hehe


btw that's possessions, clangers and average clangers per possession (%). Data is since 1998 when people started counting clangers.

[liz]

On the face of it those stats are pretty damning, but as with all stats they only tell part of the story. Now I'm not trying to argue that Goodes, Bolton or Fossie are yet approaching the class of Voss or McLeod, but players who try to create something special are more likely to make clangers. Give me Goodes or Fosdike any time over McPherson because they create far more than Frosty will ever do.

This isn't meant to be a damning of McPherson - he's a decent footballer who can make a useful contribution to the side on his day. But he will never create as many opportunities out of nothing as Goodes will. Fosdike's stats also suffer a bit, IMO, because he often tries to do something out of the ordinary with the ball. Hopefully both these players will get better at it, and their clanger stats will head in the right direction. But even if these stats stay at the same level for the rest of their careers, they are far more likely to create matchwinning chances than McPherson (or a large number of other players in the AFL).

[NMWBloods]

I put similar stats up last year, showing clangers as a % of possessions. It is very interesting, but Lizz's comments are correct. More creative players tend to have a higher percentage, because they are trying to create and do something special, and partly also because the rest of the team may not be quite up with what they're doing - ie: sometimes they are a bit too clever for their own good.

On Goodes, I suspect a lot of those clangers are made in his off games, particularly during his 'down' periods, although he does make plenty of simple mistakes in each game. Hence the frustration with him last year. Still, when he's playing well, his contribution is strongly positive despite the silly errors.

On McPherson, he has a job to do - not flashy, but generally solid. People bag him, but I've always said he does his job well and these stats show it.

As for Bolton, I think the stats show the frustration with him. Exceptionally high percentage of clangers plus hardly a player you would say has been particularly creative.

[Gunn]

It is a pity they can't do a stats of:

a) Times a player ought to have got the ball but didn't.
B) Times a defenders direct opponent got the ball unopposed.
C) Times a player was static (lazy) rather than running and making an opportunity for a team mate to pass it ti him.

Then compare that figure with the Kicks/Clangers they player had.

You may get some negative numbers.


I also think they should have a special stat for the times a player stands on the mark waving his hands when HE should be the one taking the kick. I know who would lead that stat. :-(

Stats can be very misleading when read alone.

[penga]

Originally posted by Gunn
I also think they should have a special stat for the times a player stands on the mark waving his hands when HE should be the one taking the kick. I know who would lead that stat.

this wouldnt happen to be warfe at all would it?

[omnipotent]

It also depends on how you define a clanger, I have seen players turn it over heaps during games, when under no pressure, yet on the official sheet very few are registered.

[daniel f]

ill take a guess

Originally posted by Gunn
It is a pity they can't do a stats of:

a) Times a player ought to have got the ball but didn't.
B) Times a defenders direct opponent got the ball unopposed.
C) Times a player was static (lazy) rather than running and making an opportunity for a team mate to pass it ti him.

Then compare that figure with the Kicks/Clangers they player had.

You may get some negative numbers.


I also think they should have a special stat for the times a player stands on the mark waving his hands when HE should be the one taking the kick. I know who would lead that stat. :-(

Stats can be very misleading when read alone.

would that be barry hall your talking about,he would have to have the mst non free kicks paid against him than anyone i recall

[Swansinger]

Re: Lies, damned lies and... dead British Prime Ministers

[QUOTE]Originally posted by midaro
[B]Ok, so I was cruising http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/playerpages.html and thought I'd put up some numbers for comment.

And as that particular Briish PM also once said :
Publish and be damned!
I think he dropped a clanger by being caught with his mistress.

[Cheer Cheer]

Frosty_13 is going to have a field day when he reads this thread