warfe should be dropped

[TheMase]

Re: lay off rowan can you

Originally posted by jude_adams_babe
id love to see you play better then rowan

I think I could give it a go. I think at least my kicks would hit their targets 75% of the time.

[Steve]

Re: Re: lay off rowan can you

Originally posted by penga
... however my question to you was that how does warfe fit into that gameplan when he obviously lacks skill and speed? not what the actual gameplan is...

I'm not sure of their accuracy, but the following stats from the Freo game were in the Herald Sun:

Possessions (Possessions inside defensive 50)
C.Bolton 17 (4)
Barry 16 (6)
Saddington 16 (3)
Warfe 10 (0)

What that shows is that our defenders are working up the ground and providing an option.

Nothing to do with speed or skill - just the preparedness to keep running and get into space.

For all his weaknesses Warfe is good at doing just that, which is why IMO he is suited to playing in Roos' defence.

[Gunn]

Re: Re: Re: lay off rowan can you

Originally posted by Steve
I'm not sure of their accuracy, but the following stats from the Freo game were in the Herald Sun:

Possessions (Possessions inside defensive 50)
C.Bolton 17 (4)
Barry 16 (6)
Saddington 16 (3)
Warfe 10 (0)

What that shows is that our defenders are working up the ground and providing an option.

Nothing to do with speed or skill - just the preparedness to keep running and get into space.

For all his weaknesses Warfe is good at doing just that, which is why IMO he is suited to playing in Roos' defence.

Warfe is providing an option up the ground? You are kidding? He is a defender. His job is primarily to stop his direct opponent from getting a kick which he doesn't seem capable of. When he does get possession of the ball (having left his direct opponent so as to get an easy receivers option) his task is to deliver it with skill by hand or foot to a 'team mate' which is another taks he just can't do. The usual turnover leaves Warfe half way up the ground with his direct opponent all by himself screaming for the ball within the 50 m arc. With respect to you 'any backman' can 'lose' his forward opponent by running up the ground. The absolutely essential skill a backman must have is to know when to leave so as to make a receiving option and then to make absolutely sure the good work of those team mates who got the ball to him is not wasted by a brainless or skill less turnover. Close observation of Warfe over the past years has proven he just can't do it consistently.

If our team is ever to become a strong side the backman must do more than just make to occasional spectacular spoil. Rohan Warfe is a liability IMO. Watch him very closely over the course of a match and call his name aloud every time his direct opponent gets the ball and he is late to the contest or he makes a stuff up. I guarantee you that you will get sick of the sound of his name.

[Steve]

Farmer kicked 2 goals.

His career average is 2.07

Warfe drew the short straw and was asked to play on an opponent who he wasn't suited to minding.

I didn't think I was going overboard in my defending of his Warfe's) attributes, but with all the lynching I can see how it would be seen that way.

Watch how the likes of Johnson, Leppitsch, Scott, Ashcroft, Pike and White play as 'defenders'. Even guys like M.Johnson and Solomon pay little respect to their opponents when Essendon are in possession.

Roos is asking our defenders to back themselves and their team-mates and push ahead of the play when we gain possession. When it works it looks great (ie. last week), when it doesn't it looks very ordinary (Sat. night).

I don't recall many blasting Warfe for leaving his opponent last week when he had 10 of his 11 possessions outside of our defensive 50.

Maybe I'm just getting confused. I think I saw in the one post:

• His job is primarily to stop his direct opponent from getting a kick
• The absolutely essential skill a backman must have is to know when to leave so as to make a receiving option
• backman must do more than just make to occasional spectacular spoil

Do you want defenders to be tagging 'negators', or do much more than that?

[Johnny Roberts]

Watch how the likes of Johnson, Leppitsch, Scott, Ashcroft, Pike and White play as 'defenders'. Even guys like M.Johnson and Solomon pay little respect to their opponents when Essendon are in possession.

I totally agree that all the players mentioned above are the sorts of players that the swans defenders should be basing their game around. However I also believe that the reason these "quality" players are able to play so loose without getting "burnt" on the rebound; is that they all possess either "very good" or "great" foot skills and rarely miss targets.

This cannot be said about Rowan Warfe.

Does he push up and create a target? Clearly yes.

Does he put in and chase hard? Yes- never doubted his endeavour.

Does he possess the skills to hurt sides when he does find space? No

Is this perceived weakness something that he can work at fixing? Doubtful - at 26-27 it would seem that it is too late- therefore time to give a kid a go in his place.

[Gunn]

Originally posted by Steve

Maybe I'm just getting confused. I think I saw in the one post:

• His job is primarily to stop his direct opponent from getting a kick
• The absolutely essential skill a backman must have is to know when to leave so as to make a receiving option
• backman must do more than just make to occasional spectacular spoil

Do you want defenders to be tagging 'negators', or do much more than that? [/B]

What I want a defender (Warfe) to be able to do is to have the ability to play 'tight' against his direct opponent so as to prevent him getting a possession. When his (Warfe's) own backmen team mates have possession I want Warfe to be able to run off his direct opponent so he can receive the ball by foot or hand. Most importantly when Warfe has run off his opponent and has possession I want Warfe to be able catch any ball passed to him (without fumbling it) and to deliver it all by foot or hand accurately to a team mate in a more attacking position. I then want Warfe to run back and take up a close checking position next to his direct opponent. Repeat cycle as much as possible.

What I don't want Warfe to do is to play 20 metres away from his direct opponent so that he gets to the contest at a time so late that he can only stand on the mark and wave his hands vigorously. I also don't want Warfe when a fellow defender has passed the ball to him to fumble the pass or to mis kick or mis hand pass the ball direct to the opposition or to kick it out on the full.

Do I expect to much of him?

My long held view of Warfe is that he is a litmus test of our team's strength. If he is the best we can field then we have severe deficiencies....and aren't going anywhere. We can win despite him (which we have) but need to win because he or more likely his replacement is a good defender. Winning despite him is a burden our team is not equipped to carry successfully over a full season. :-(

[Steve]

Fair enough, but IMO you're being harsh on a player who would himself admit to hardly being one of the league's premier defenders.

For all the talk of Warfe being far too loose on his opponents, and them cutting loose and hurting us, the 2 goals Farmer kicked were ironically during passages of play where Warfe was right on his hammer.

One was on the lead, and the other from a stop-play where Warfe was actually within arms-length of Farmer when he took possession - on both occasions it was Farmer's superior speed off the mark that saw him gain possession.

[swan_song]

OOOOOOOOOps...seems I posted it twice...

[swan_song]

It might just be that I'm an old trekkie, but I like Warfe and Kirk, though neither would make my team of the century I have to admit. I have criticisms of many players...inconsistency of most...jude's bad kicking...saddo's penchant to try and outmark everyone rather than PUNCH...warfe and leo's seemingly large frees against count over the years. But as a backline in total, we are not bad. We had the league's best or 2nd best defence 2 years ago...and not many teams it seems (touch wood...fingers crossed) kick huge scores against us too often. these past two years it has been the attack which has been responsible for poor showings...the inability to kick a winning score. Magic has been down, Bazza suspended for quite a while, and no real crumbing forward. Nick D was supposed to help solve that, and what I saw of him in his first two games for us (Richmond and Carlton)suggested that was a possibility. But this inability to score --(demonstrated three times now so far this year) to kick either no goals or one in an entire half of football -- is surely a GREATER worry than the backline...

[bomber-princess]

lay off rowan!!!!!

Lay off Rowan. People seem to be forgetting that rowan is coming back from injuries and so is lacking match fitness and match practice.
When 100% fit he has been one of our best defenders!!!

on the topic of Frosty, what has he ever done for the club? why is he still at the club at the expence of some other player that could have actually done something for the club? it isn't that i don't like Frosty as a player, i just think he hasn't done anything for us, since he has been here.

i know everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but why does it seem that the majority of people are dead set against Rowan Warfe? i know that there are a few people that think he is a good player for us, when fit. basically to those critics of Rowans and any other player you have overly criticised, how would you go in senior football against top competition? [injured or not}

[TheMase]

Re: lay off rowan!!!!!

Originally posted by warfes_babe
Lay off Rowan. People seem to be forgetting that rowan is coming back from injuries and so is lacking match fitness and match practice.
When 100% fit he has been one of our best defenders!!!

on the topic of Frosty, what has he ever done for the club? why is he still at the club at the expence of some other player that could have actually done something for the club? it isn't that i don't like Frosty as a player, i just think he hasn't done anything for us, since he has been here.

i know everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but why does it seem that the majority of people are dead set against Rowan Warfe? i know that there are a few people that think he is a good player for us, when fit. basically to those critics of Rowans and any other player you have overly criticised, how would you go in senior football against top competition? [injured or not}

I think people's main probably with Rowan Warfe is that he is not going to get us a premiership, so why persevere with him?
Why not blood someone like Powell or LRT rather than waste time on Warfe who really doesn't add anything special to the side, and really is just watching the clock tick until he is gone.

Once Powell, LRT and Hunt step up, Rowan will not hold his spot in the side.

[desredandwhite]

on the topic of Frosty, what has he ever done for the club?

From http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/teams/swans.html

From 94-03, 109 games, 922 kicks, 320 marks, 548 handballs, 1470 disposals, 36 goals, 33 points 2 hit-outs, 148 tackles, 123 rebounds, 250 inside 50s, 150 clearances.

I reckon that's a fair contribution.

You're allowed your opinion, that goes without saying. Please let others have theirs too.

basically to those critics of Rowans and any other player you have overly criticised, how would you go in senior football against top competition?

To criticise Frosty's worth to the club and THEN say this all in the same post...

[NMWBloods]

Re: lay off rowan!!!!!

Lay off Rowan.

AND

on the topic of Frosty, what has he ever done for the club?

AND

i know everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but why does it seem that the majority of people are dead set against Rowan Warfe?

AND

basically to those critics of Rowans and any other player you have overly criticised, how would you go in senior football against top competition? [injured or not}

Surely you are kidding...!!! If you can't post anything sensible, why bother! To summarise your argument - "Don't dare bag Rowan. Frosty is crap. You are all entitled to your own opinion, and although I can bag Frosty, don't bag Rowan as you couldn't do any better!" Please...

[penga]

Re: lay off rowan!!!!!

Originally posted by warfes_babe
on the topic of Frosty, what has he ever done for the club? why is he still at the club at the expence of some other player that could have actually done something for the club? it isn't that i don't like Frosty as a player, i just think he hasn't done anything for us, since he has been here.

i know everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but why does it seem that the majority of people are dead set against Rowan Warfe? i know that there are a few people that think he is a good player for us, when fit. basically to those critics of Rowans and any other player you have overly criticised, how would you go in senior football against top competition? [injured or not}

i agree with your opinion of frosty (except for what he has done for the club, im sure he has done heaps as he has been on the list for 10 years), this is also my opinion of warfe... they should make way for another player...

i really hate the argument of "how would you go?" thats not the point is it, they are PROFESSIONAL footballers!!! if theyre bad we are gonna bag em! warfe is ****(imo)!

you also say that warfe is good when he is fit, does that mean he is always gonna be bad coz he is very injury prone!

[bomber-princess]

No I am not saying that Rowan will be a "bad" player because he is injury prone.
Do you really think the swans would have kept Rowan on the list if they thought he was, in your opinion "c***?" It isn't his fault that he has been injury prone these last 2 years.
All players who have been injured at some point, need time to gain match fitness and match practice before they can get back to their best. That is the same for Rowan.
Give Rowan a chance. He has in the past been one of our best defenders along with Brad Seymour.
One question. If the swans do drop Rowan, like you are suggesting, who would you put in his place? A young player isn't going to have the big match experience against the top players, i realise that is the way for those younger players to get that experience but you still need those experienced players in the side to teach the younger players. Especially now as we have lost Dunks, Kellza, Schwatta.
I know we do have other defensive players, but not with the size advantage that Rowan provides, height & bulk. Yes, Sadds has bulked up but not enough to contest marks.[ having said this i am not bagging Sadds as a player, i think Sadds is a great player.]