You asked for it!

[penga]

Originally posted by liz
I don't see the point of playing Mathews on a player who is seen to be a relatively low threat if we agree that he wouldn't provide the same run from HB that Kennelly does.

mathews plays the HB sweeper anyway, so why not play him on the HBF and play a more damaging player further up the ground? by saying that he would be on a less dangerous forward only by taking kennelly's opponent. then allow kennelly to create his run through the midfield...

[smasher]

I COULD SEE MATTHEWS PLAYING A SIMILAR ROLE TO THAT OF THE GREAT P.KELLY.I'M NOT SUGGESTING THEY ARE IN THE SAME CLASS AT PRESENT BUT I CAN SEE MATTHEWS PLAYING AN OLD FASHIONED RUCK ROVER TYPE OF ROLE.I KNOW IT'S A BIG CALL BUT HE COULD BE RESTED WHEN NEEDED.BEN MATTEWS IS A VERY UNDERRATED PLAYER.

[Charlie]

Originally posted by smasher
I COULD SEE MATTHEWS PLAYING A SIMILAR ROLE TO THAT OF THE GREAT P.KELLY.I'M NOT SUGGESTING THEY ARE IN THE SAME CLASS AT PRESENT BUT I CAN SEE MATTHEWS PLAYING AN OLD FASHIONED RUCK ROVER TYPE OF ROLE.I KNOW IT'S A BIG CALL BUT HE COULD BE RESTED WHEN NEEDED.BEN MATTEWS IS A VERY UNDERRATED PLAYER.

Cheers mate - just a suggestion.

If you type it like this -

Originally posted by smasher
I could see Mathews playing a similar role to that of the great P.Kelly. I'm not suggesting they are in the same class at present, but I can see Mathews playing an old fashioned ruck rover type of role. I know it's a big call but he could be rested when needed. Ben Mathews is a very underrated player.

- it is much easier for us to read, and therefore for you to get your point across.

[liz]

Originally posted by penga
mathews plays the HB sweeper anyway, so why not play him on the HBF and play a more damaging player further up the ground? by saying that he would be on a less dangerous forward only by taking kennelly's opponent. then allow kennelly to create his run through the midfield...

Because Kennelly has offensive weapons - his pace and penetrating kicking - that mean that whoever he is playing on needs to keep a very close eye on him. They wouldn't need to do so with Mathews to the same extent. They could drag him out of the play more easily, and in the process we would lose Mathews as a "play through" man.

[Dpw]

Originally posted by liz
I can't make head or tails of your second sentence. But Ablett played a handful of pretty good halves of games last year. He hasn't yet done it for a whole game, granted, but his best football has, at least sometimes, been played when the heat is very much on. Consistency over a game should come with better endurance, as he physically matures.

Most players don't play anything like their best football until they are 23+. The Judds and Riewoldts of this world are the exception. Few emulate them.

How long would you have given Brett Kirk? Or Leo Barry?

Ablett may or may not become a good AFL player but, given that he has shown steady improvement, I don't think he has been given undue opportunities thus far.

Pressure for a spot in the midfield will hopefully increase this year, with the recruitment of Spriggs, hoped-for improvement of McVeigh, with Willoughby and Moore maybe pressing for places, and possibly Monty, Schneider and Bevan looking for opportunities in the middle. Unless we are ridden with midfield injuries, Ablett will certainly not get any "free" games. I think we'll find out if he has what it takes.

Sorry Iam hard to understand, I dont think you are comparing apples with apples Liz, how long were Kirk and Barry on our list before they performed? I would suggest they delivered far before there 5th season (and Ablett still hasnt) your point on age is relvant but my other point is why in particular has he been given this long to perform when others who appear to have more talent or are key position players are given far less ie Thelwis (I guess a part of the answer would have to do with injurys and plain luck). what do you define as steady improvement?

I do agree with you that barring injurys (Ablett dose seem to cash in this dept) we shall see if he dose have what it takes

Oh yeah thanks for the translation NMW, spare a thought for Chammond who has to translate any article I type

[chammond]

Originally posted by Dpw
Sorry Iam hard to understand, I dont think you are comparing apples with apples Liz, how long were Kirk and Barry on our list before they performed? I would suggest they delivered far before there 5th season (and Ablett still hasnt) your point on age is relvant but my other point is why in particular has he been given this long to perform when others who appear to have more talent or are key position players are given far less ie Thelwis (I guess a part of the answer would have to do with injurys and plain luck). what do you define as steady improvement?

Actually JD, the Swans generally do give their players plenty of time to mature . . . examples like Thewlis and Mott are not the norm.

Ablett probably hasn't shown the sparkle that we might expect of a no 24 pick, but he is in our 25 best players and he's still young.

Players hit their peak on average at around 24yo, but that's only an average. Plenty of quality players mature later than that . . . Barry Hall and Leo Barry for instance are still improving every year.

Leo Barry is a prime example . . . recruited by Barassi as a half-back flanker, he was a dud and probably would have played out his contract in the reserves. But then he was given a run in the reserves forward line to fill a gap and he showed enough to get the gig in the seniors. Unfortunately, his kicking wasn't as good as his marking, and he wasn't consistent enough to hold his spot. But again he got lucky, and he was given a chance to fill a hole at half-back, which he has grabbed with both hands. All of that certainly took more than five seasons.

And you could probably tell similar stories about other players, like Ryan O'Keefe and Stephen Doyle for example. And Sundqvist, LRT and Powell are all hopefully heading down that same long road to success.

[Dpw]

Originally posted by chammond
Actually JD, the Swans generally do give their players plenty of time to mature . . . examples like Thewlis and Mott are not the norm.

Ablett probably hasn't shown the sparkle that we might expect of a no 24 pick, but he is in our 25 best players and he's still young.

Players hit their peak on average at around 24yo, but that's only an average. Plenty of quality players mature later than that . . . Barry Hall and Leo Barry for instance are still improving every year.

Leo Barry is a prime example . . . recruited by Barassi as a half-back flanker, he was a dud and probably would have played out his contract in the reserves. But then he was given a run in the reserves forward line to fill a gap and he showed enough to get the gig in the seniors. Unfortunately, his kicking wasn't as good as his marking, and he wasn't consistent enough to hold his spot. But again he got lucky, and he was given a chance to fill a hole at half-back, which he has grabbed with both hands. All of that certainly took more than five seasons.

And you could probably tell similar stories about other players, like Ryan O'Keefe and Stephen Doyle for example. And Sundqvist, LRT and Powell are all hopefully heading down that same long road to success.

I think you will find Barry was a different story because of his height and versatilty, he kept showing enough to justify keeping him, Ablett is a midfielder. I think you will also find it is far from the norm for the any club to hold onto players as long as the Swans have held onto Ablett your examples are of players who have had long term injurys which is fair enough, not true for most other players who get 2-3(tops 4) seasons to prove themseleves. also Hall stopped playing footy at age 12 and resumed at 16 which would tend to suggest that he would have a longer learning cure in his senior career again not true of Ablett again Hall is a key position palyer and will naturaly take longer to establish himself, as for O'keefe he has had strong improvement every single year he has been on the list, again the same cant be said for Ablett. You could also added Fixter (again injury)

I will give u that last year Ablett was in our top 25 mostly due to injury but this year I think it will be very different