Roos embarassed

[NMWBloods]

I've already agreed with you that Nicks' miss may well have been 'pivotal'. My earlier point was that there have been other misses by other players that were just as (or more) significant.

I think Nicks' and Goodes' misses were more critical than Davis', and should be distinguished as they were quite gettable. Davis' shot was from outside 50 and a lovely kick that hit the post. Sure it was at a critical time, and would have been a huge lift, but isn't really comparable to the misses by the other two.

[Steve]

Originally posted by chammond
Now who's misinterpreting, Steve? I've already agreed with you that Nicks' miss may well have been 'pivotal'.

No, it's still you

By earlier saying that Nicks' miss couldn't reasonably be attributed to the 17-point turnaround, surely you were arguing that it wasn't a pivotal moment.

For it to be a pivotal moment, it has to be linked to the ensuing Adelaide goals.

I think it's fair to say that we both think we are right and are not convincing the other

I'd much rather hear some positive views about how you think the 'fundamental problems' we are suffering from could be addressed.

[chammond]

I think Nicks' and Goodes' misses were more critical than Davis', and should be distinguished as they were quite gettable. Davis' shot was from outside 50 and a lovely kick that hit the post. Sure it was at a critical time, and would have been a huge lift, but isn't really comparable to the misses by the other two.

NMWB, my impression was that Goodes and Davis kicked from almost the same spot, put that may only have been because I was banging my head against the wall at the time. Anyway, Goodes' miss had a bigger detriment if for no other reason than it resulted from the sort of 'accurate kick to a strong lead' that we'd scarcely achieved all day . . . it bloody well deserved a goal.

I think it's fair to say that we both think we are right and are not convincing the other. I'd much rather hear some positive views about how you think the 'fundamental problems' we are suffering from could be addressed.

Unfortunately, Steve, that's the crux of the problem. One of the reasons I enjoy debating these issues with you and NMWB and some of the other RWO clan is because I am very pessimistic about the Swans future, and I don't have any real ideas about how the form of the past few seasons can be turned around.

I'm not impressed by the "put your faith in Roos" mantra, and I've seen no evidence (at any club) that 'rebuilding' or 'yoof policy' are anything but euphemisms for 'we've got no idea how to get out of this hole'. I can see us 3 years down the track in exactly the same position as Geelong is now, and worse off than St Kilda and Fremantle because we won't perform badly enough to get priority picks.

The problem is, of course, that in Sydney's case, on-field failure is directly linked to business failure. Imagine if our survival came down to Collingwood's goodwill once again - do you think Eddie would vote for us? I'd hate to see us become a charity case for another decade.

[NMWBloods]

NMWB, my impression was that Goodes and Davis kicked from almost the same spot, put that may only have been because I was banging my head against the wall at the time. Anyway, Goodes' miss had a bigger detriment if for no other reason than it resulted from the sort of 'accurate kick to a strong lead' that we'd scarcely achieved all day . . . it bloody well deserved a goal.

For a nice change I was quite calm about the loss (for reasons refer below) so I recall Davis' shot quite well. He was out at about 45deg (on the 'wrong side' for a right footer) and kicked from about 55m. Nice looking kick, but started too far left (which I notice he does often) and hit the post. From memory, Goodes' shot was from a nice build up and he kicked directly in front from about 45m. I may perhaps be thinking of a different one for Goodes, but I'm pretty sure that is it. He really should have kicked that one, whereas I think Davis' would have actually been a great kick.

Unfortunately, Steve, that's the crux of the problem. One of the reasons I enjoy debating these issues with you and NMWB and some of the other RWO clan is because I am very pessimistic about the Swans future, and I don't have any real ideas about how the form of the past few seasons can be turned around.

I too am quite pessimistic, which is why I wasn't too upset with the loss. I actually don't expect a lot more and if they perform well then I will be pleasantly surprised. I just think we lack the 'cattle on the paddock' and, as I said somewhere else, I think a major change in skill and attitude is required.

[swan_song]

Good God that's depressing reading you guys...but alas, I fear, spot on... My fear is that 70 years without success is just the beginning...
A culture of mediocrity as has suddounded the swans would not be tolerated by the powerful clubs such as Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn and Carlton...and now Adelaide, Port and Brisbane I guess as well. Which leaves me to suspect that unless something changes we will always be on the third tier with the group of clubs destined for perpetual mediocrity -- geelong, boozers, doggies and swans