Ablett's a godsend

[Dpw]

Originally posted by sharpie
Cressa was our run with player for years in the mid-late 90s

No he wasnt, Brunton and Daniels where

[Dpw]

Originally posted by sharp9
I would suggest that he IS being developed as an attacking player....of the future.

Maybe Judd can start his career as an attacking midfielder but that's about it.

McVeigh, on the other hand, has to sit out if he's not producing 'cos he is a normal midfielder only.

I yhink you'll find that Luke Ball was tagging a lot in 2003 and 2004. He's graduating OK I reckon.

The suggestion is that Ablett has not learned exactly where and how to run in order to do maximum damage when set loose.

I hope your right but my gut feeling tells me he will never be anything other than a bit part player.

[Dpw]

Originally posted by Nico
Neil Brunton was a tagger when we lost 26 games straight from memory. A plodder at best.

.

Brunton was considered one of the best taggers in his time but when he was required to step a further level he was unable and thats where I see Ablett

Wasnt Brunton also our vice-captain?

[sharpie]

Originally posted by Dpw
No he wasnt, Brunton and Daniels where

Hang on, notice I said mid-late, meaning the 2nd half of the 90s. I only started watching in 96, so I have no idea who these other guys are, and Cressa was definitely our run with man for the first few seasons that I was following the swans.

[Dpw]

Originally posted by sharpie
Hang on, notice I said mid-late, meaning the 2nd half of the 90s. I only started watching in 96, so I have no idea who these other guys are, and Cressa was definitely our run with man for the first few seasons that I was following the swans.

I think you will find that role(s) was filled by iether John Stevens. Mark Orchard, Ben Matthews or Jarred Crouch who prior to Kirk was our no 1 tagger and in the top group or taggers in the AFL

[sharpie]

Originally posted by Dpw
I think you will find that role(s) was filled by iether John Stevens. Mark Orchard, Ben Matthews or Jarred Crouch who prior to Kirk was our no 1 tagger and in the top group or taggers in the AFL

John Stevens was never a "run-with" player. Orchard only ever played back pocket. So did Matthews and Crouch once Orchard left. They certainly never played in the midfield against one of the opposition's main ball winners until more recent times, probably since 2000.

[Dpw]

Originally posted by sharpie
John Stevens was never a "run-with" player. Orchard only ever played back pocket. So did Matthews and Crouch once Orchard left. They certainly never played in the midfield against one of the opposition's main ball winners until more recent times, probably since 2000.

Garbage, those particular players had varied roles the above positions where there most likely position but they switiched around to suit the right match up in fact Stevens received priase for toweling up Buckley during his prime on more then one occasion and orchard moved into the middle like Bolton does now for us.

ps Stevens also got the job on P Matera as well

[liz]

Originally posted by Dpw
Garbage, those particular players had varied roles the above positions where there most likely position but they switiched around to suit the right match up in fact Stevens received priase for toweling up Buckley during his prime on more then one occasion and orchard moved into the middle like Bolton does now for us.

ps Stevens also got the job on P Matera as well

I agree with you that Stevens played a variety of roles, sometimes as a run-with player and sometimes not.

But so did Cressa up to (and including) 1996 - and probably even later in his career he was given the odd shut-down job to do.

[Dpw]

Originally posted by liz
I agree with you that Stevens played a variety of roles, sometimes as a run-with player and sometimes not.

But so did Cressa up to (and including) 1996 - and probably even later in his career he was given the odd shut-down job to do.

No argument there Liz, my point was more that Cresea may have done the odd job as a run with but other than that he was one of our prime ball winners and other than when he first came back after breaking his arm or leg where he played as a forwad he as pretty much always been a ball winner type.

[liz]

Originally posted by Dpw
No argument there Liz, my point was more that Cresea may have done the odd job as a run with but other than that he was one of our prime ball winners and other than when he first came back after breaking his arm or leg where he played as a forwad he as pretty much always been a ball winner type.

But was he?

I didn't discover football until 1995 so I'm not really qualified to comment on much before that. But from what I've read I'd understood that Cressa was predominantly seen as a tagging type player early in his career, even in his B&F year of 1994(?). Even in 1996 I don't recall him being seen as one of the prime movers in the midfield.

My recollection is that 1997 was the year he broke through and came to be seen as an all-round very good player, and I remember he and Lewis battling hard for 2nd and 3rd in the B&F, with both having had their best seasons for a couple of years as being key playmakers for the Swans in an injury riddled and inconsistent year.

Like Dunks he was a player who kept on getting better right through the second half of his career and both probably had final seasons not that far off their best form.

I reckon that one thing the Swans can be pretty proud of over the past decade is getting mature players to improve substantially over the latter parts of their careers, when the common assumption is that players won't improve much.

We saw it with Dunks and Cressa and more recently we've seen it with Leapin', Baz and The Captain.

[Nico]

Originally posted by sharpie
Hang on, notice I said mid-late, meaning the 2nd half of the 90s. I only started watching in 96, so I have no idea who these other guys are, and Cressa was definitely our run with man for the first few seasons that I was following the swans.

Yep, your right. Cressa at one stage did the run with bit probably because his disposal was so bad. So do the stopping with minimal posessions. But to his credit he became very good in the midfield and was adept at sneaking in to the forward zone for uncontested marks. Very good at finding space and was our go to man on the wing.

Since he left there has been a dirth of midfielders regularly getting deep into the forward zone. No one has stepped into his boots. Boy those 30 possessions a game have gone missing.

[Nico]

Originally posted by Dpw
Garbage, those particular players had varied roles the above positions where there most likely position but they switiched around to suit the right match up in fact Stevens received priase for toweling up Buckley during his prime on more then one occasion and orchard moved into the middle like Bolton does now for us.

ps Stevens also got the job on P Matera as well

Agreed, I recall Matthews in Melbourne games being given a run with role against some top players. His problem was he didn't run with them. They ran him ragged because he either didn't have the discipline, pace or ability to go with them.

[Dpw]

Originally posted by liz
But was he?

Hey you might be right I guess I always saw him as the kind of player who was good defensively but won the hardball and created by hand for others I still think that was more of his role due to the lack of leg speed he had, he just wasnt quick enough to keep up with attacking players to be used as a regular tagger.

I know Kirk and Carr arent that quick but they are a new breed of tagger not a traditional one which is what we would be comparing Cressa too.

[dendol]

Originally posted by hammo
I think Ablett has shown enough to simply be given a license to attack.

He doesn't know how to find the ball himself, so following a natural ball-winner will help develop this part of his game.

Originally posted by Newbie
The Swans seem to have the mindset that developing midfielders must graduate from the "run with players" school for some reasons. I certainly can not recall if Aker, Judd or even Williams were developed in that way at all. "Run with players" could develop a player into a workhorse but not the out and out attacking midfielder type that we are searching for.

Not true. Bolton and McVeigh are more natural ball winners and hence don't have to go through the "run with" graduate school. I don't think Willoughby, Schmidt, Moore and Malceski will be groomed as defensive midfielders either.

[Nico]

If Ablett is a godsend, then can god send him a new kicking leg.