Protecting the Ball Carrier,

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • NMWBloods
    Taking Refuge!!
    • Jan 2003
    • 15819

    #16
    Originally posted by Snowy
    Well I watch a lot of shepherds being made which are probably good as a disciplined measure but in reality don't actually achieve a lot. I'm not saying they shouldn't happen and they create good habits but I think if a bloke is legitimately shepherding within a contest it gets counted regardless of its effectiveness, just like a lot of the tackles laid at stoppages simply effect another ball-up but are not crunching tackles. That is why some of the likes of Hayes, Kirk and Obree get credited with so many because they are often the last bloke to lay the tackle before the whistle goes.
    Yep - they get a lot of tackles, but the stats also record 'effective tackles' which go beyond the problem you allude to. I believe that shepherding stats are similar in that they look for effectiveness not just effort.
    Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

    "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

    Comment

    • DST
      The voice of reason!
      • Jan 2003
      • 2705

      #17
      While we don't get many plaudits from the Melbourne Media Mafia the one that is consistently bought up is that we play the most disciplined, well drilled brand of football in the compertition.

      When talking about shepherding it is a fundemental part of the game and I would assume that if the coaching panel wanted more protection of the ball carrier we as a disciplined, well drilled team it would be carried out in spades.

      So therefore I tend to agree with others that it is not an area of concern for the coaching staff and in fact may be a planned style of play at present.

      DST
      "Looking forward to a rebuilt, new, fast and exciting Swans model in 2010"

      Comment

      • NMWBloods
        Taking Refuge!!
        • Jan 2003
        • 15819

        #18
        I'd be curious to understand the rationale behind that then as I can't see in what way it couldn't benefit us when running forward or when contesting loose balls.

        Interestingly though, there is talk about how we are so disciplined yet earlier in the season when our game plan was being caned, Roos said that it was not our game plan. Therefore the players were not following it, hence raises questions about just how discipline we are relative to any team. It always seems like one of those throw-away comments, such as Walls makes - elements of truth to it, but not significantly different to other top sides.
        Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

        "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

        Comment

        • giant
          Veterans List
          • Mar 2005
          • 4731

          #19
          Originally posted by Go Swannies

          The lack of sherpherding frustrates me too - and I'd like to understand why we don't. I bet Paul Roos won't tell us, either.
          ROK Lobster Responds thread.

          Actually, I suspect it must be part of the game plan (or at least absent from the game plan) but I can't think why off the top of my head.

          Comment

          • Rizzo
            On the Rookie List
            • Jan 2003
            • 655

            #20
            You can see the effect the shepherds have on the style of play. The 'Aints and Weagles always seem to have plenty of time to make that hand ball or kick and as such appear to make better decisions.

            Anyone feel like doing some correlation of shepherds vs clangers?

            Comment

            • dread and might
              Back, strapped and intact
              • Apr 2004
              • 949

              #21
              ^^
              I refuse to believe that footballers or coaches could possibly know more than 'net addicts
              I wish my weed was EMO so it would cut itself

              Comment

              • connolly
                Registered User
                • Aug 2005
                • 2461

                #22
                Originally posted by NMWBloods
                Are you sure? Most of those 1%ers are effective stats not just attempts I believe.

                As a comparison, Adelaide like to run the ball through their midfield. They also often follow up a handball with a shepherd, thus giving the receiver a second to compose himself. We rarely do this, which might be why we fling the ball around with a flurry of handballs or kick the ball quickly without spotting up a target, as we are known to do.

                And before someone says 'yes, but look at where on the ladder we are', think about that we're 4th and we might be even higher if our running game was even more effective.
                Shepherding is a facet of the game going the way of the place kick and ankle boots. The rule prohibiting bumping and blocking an opposition player when the opposition players is 5 metres from the ball has something to do with that [15.4.5(e)]. Also the Swans style is for the non-possessors to run to space when we are in possession not to the ball carrier. This tactic was developed some years ago and discussed in the standard coaching manual
                Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man [that is] my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. Zechariah 13
                Bevo bandwagon driver

                Comment

                • Go Swannies
                  Veterans List
                  • Sep 2003
                  • 5697

                  #23
                  Originally posted by jimmyconnolly
                  This tactic was developed some years ago and discussed in the standard coaching manual
                  Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man [that is] my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. Zechariah 13
                  And thus it came to pass.

                  Exactly how old is your standard caching manual??

                  And wouldn't you give away 50m if you smite the shepherd? And tell Zechariah to leave Bucky and Schneids alone!

                  Comment

                  • NMWBloods
                    Taking Refuge!!
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 15819

                    #24
                    Originally posted by jimmyconnolly
                    Shepherding is a facet of the game going the way of the place kick and ankle boots. The rule prohibiting bumping and blocking an opposition player when the opposition players is 5 metres from the ball has something to do with that [15.4.5(e)]. Also the Swans style is for the non-possessors to run to space when we are in possession not to the ball carrier. This tactic was developed some years ago and discussed in the standard coaching manual
                    Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man [that is] my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. Zechariah 13
                    Interesting that other teams are still using it to good effect...

                    Shepherding and our running game are not mutually exclusive despite some claims to the contrary here.
                    Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

                    "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

                    Comment

                    • connolly
                      Registered User
                      • Aug 2005
                      • 2461

                      #25
                      It would be interesting to see someone (LRT perhaps?) try to shepherd for Leaping when he goes on one of his existential runs out of defence. Be a bit like asking Fred Astair to partner a break dancer. As they say - I'd like to see that
                      Bevo bandwagon driver

                      Comment

                      • Go Swannies
                        Veterans List
                        • Sep 2003
                        • 5697

                        #26
                        Originally posted by NMWBloods
                        Interesting that other teams are still using it to good effect...

                        Shepherding and our running game are not mutually exclusive despite some claims to the contrary here.
                        I don't think it's a "claim" that the Swans don't shepherd much - it's a fact. Aren't we just trying to work out why?

                        Comment

                        • NMWBloods
                          Taking Refuge!!
                          • Jan 2003
                          • 15819

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Go Swannies
                          I don't think it's a "claim" that the Swans don't shepherd much - it's a fact. Aren't we just trying to work out why?
                          I can see why there are so many disagreement with this reading comprehension.

                          It's been a claim that we don't shepherd because of our running game - I don't think that is a good reason for not doing so.
                          Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

                          "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

                          Comment

                          • dimelb
                            pr. dim-melb; m not f
                            • Jun 2003
                            • 6889

                            #28
                            Originally posted by jimmyconnolly

                            Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man [that is] my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. Zechariah 13
                            I suspect it's a matter of punctuation.
                            The Lord is. My shepherd I shall not want.
                            He reminds him of the guys, close-set, slow, and never rattled, who were play-makers on the team. (John Updike, seeing Josh Kennedy in a crystal ball)

                            Comment

                            • Go Swannies
                              Veterans List
                              • Sep 2003
                              • 5697

                              #29
                              Originally posted by dimelb
                              I suspect it's a matter of punctuation.
                              The Lord is. My shepherd I shall not want.
                              Particularly if he maketh me lie down in green pastures.

                              Comment

                              Working...