Sfl 2006

[the bull]

I know its early days but does anyone know the set up of the SFL in 2006 in regards to Match of the Rounds and Fox Footy etc...

Have fox footy renewed there contact to telivised games?

Is it fair to see the best sides play every week or should we promoted some lesser sides even though the game may not be as good a standard?

And just on another note, how do you all feel the new 18 a side rule worked in 2005?

[Monty Burns2]

Re: Sfl 2006

Originally posted by the bull
And just on another note, how do you all feel the new 18 a side rule worked in 2005?

I found it fine. Having played up forward on one of the smaller grounds in the comp, there was no trouble finding space (although we, as well as most other clubs, played with deliberately open forward line). There is always a risk that by pushing a pocket up the ground, that there'd be more pressure on the mid-fielders, thereby affecting the delivery into the forward line, but I can't say that I noticed a difference to previous years with 16-a-side in that regard.

I guess one could argue that with 18 a side 2 guys were getting a game this year that wouldn't have last year, all things being equal. That could diminish the level of skill being displayed I suppose. Anecdotally, though, I don't think that there was a noticable standard drop between last year and this.

16 a side was worth a shot, but 18 is definitely the way to go, if Sydney wants to be recognised as a decent comp.

[Coastal Boy]

IMO 16 a side is the way to go for quality football particularly on grounds anything smaller than the MCG. But football throughout Australia is mostly 18 a side and thus to have a credible competition the extra 2 players is necessary. IMO the AFL should consider 16 a side some time in the future. I know the purists may complain, but if you take the historical argument out, I dont see many good reasons for 18 a side.

[westcoast9294]

Some good historical points raised,
The VFA played 16 a side happily for many years after the VFL formed and broke away. The two wingmen were usually dropped.

For those who do not know or care ---
Prior to the VFL forming there were 20 on the ground. There were
two extra ruckmen then.

The then new VFL (1897) introduced the 18 a side we have today, after dropping those 2 ruckmen.

The VFL (Now AFL) ruled the roost so 18 a side it became.

However both leagues played on the small inner Melbourne grounds at that time, and were at loggerheads all the time over the rules of the game.

[Rafters]

Originally posted by westcoast9294
For those who do not know or care ---
Prior to the VFL forming there were 20 on the ground. There were
two extra ruckmen then.

The then new VFL (1897) introduced the 18 a side we have today, after dropping those 2 ruckmen.

So rule changes have always been against the ruckmen ... bit like being against fast bowlers in cricket!!

I think 18 a side is the way to go ... gives so many more a game of footy each week without having to create an extra team. Also I thought`that SFL footy got a bit soft a few years ago with its 16 a side format & players developed some bad habits.

I don't think the draw (let alone Fox Footy matches) will be done for awhile yet as I have also heard wind of a proposed change to the Sydney AFL structure for 2006 & beyond. Could be some interesting meetings at HQ if a proposed regulation/promotion takes place - primarily amongst those being relegated & the hierarchy. That plus the usual merry-go-round for the availability of grounds during winter.

[Pekay]

Originally posted by Rafters
So rule changes have always been against the ruckmen ... bit like being against fast bowlers in cricket!!

I think 18 a side is the way to go ... gives so many more a game of footy each week without having to create an extra team. Also I thought`that SFL footy got a bit soft a few years ago with its 16 a side format & players developed some bad habits.

I don't think the draw (let alone Fox Footy matches) will be done for awhile yet as I have also heard wind of a proposed change to the Sydney AFL structure for 2006 & beyond. Could be some interesting meetings at HQ if a proposed regulation/promotion takes place - primarily amongst those being relegated & the hierarchy. That plus the usual merry-go-round for the availability of grounds during winter.

a complicated restructure but sttill a good model...from what ive heard anyway.

[shearer]

I believe that a promotion/relegation type setup would not work at all.

It doesnt work in the English Premier League and it wouldnt work here. The same problems that happen in the EPL would happen here:

* The promoted clubs would struggle to be competitive. Say a club like Manly(only as an example) came into the comp, they would have to come up with a lot of extra funding to purchase players to give them the depth needed to compete against the top clubs.

You see a lot of clubs get promoted to the EPL, and they go way over budget.When they get relegated the following year and go back to the first division they have to offload players just to survive. Then they stay down there and struggle to get back on there feet.

I think the University sides could compete as they have the funding behind them to compete with the Wests,ECE & Campbelltowns.

Will players stay loyal to the club they play with,or only play in the Premier Division or Division 1.

The Premier Division is very even now and Wests showed in 2005 that by good recruiting you can go up the ladder very quickly. Imagine coming 7th one year through a bad run of injurys for example and some bad luck and then you are in second division the following year.

A lot of clubs are sailing close to the wind financially and i think this will put even further pressure on those clubs.

[humphrey bear]

Shearer I understand what you are saying but it depends on the reasoning for introducing promotion/relegation.

If the goal is as I think it should be improving Sydney Football then promotion and relegation might be worth a try. You are correct and it is bad for the club that is relegated. But that mght be a good thing.

Clubs need to improve and stay competitive not to be relegated and the net result is an improvement in Sydney footy.

Secondly to be relegated wouldnt have the same negative a club as it does in the EPL. Relegated clubs struggle in the EPL because of the huge loss of income stream in television, ticket sales and merchandising. As we all know the income from clubs in the SFL and SFA come from the same sources so it wouldnt make any difference which league they played in.

I would think the promotion & relegation should be based on position in the club championship and not senior level as it would push clubs to continue focusing on junior development and not short term cheque book gratification.

[DLH]

Originally posted by Pekay
a complicated restructure but sttill a good model...from what ive heard anyway.

Pekay,

What are the chances of you blokes playing Div 1 next season? I know the League are quite keen for it to happen.

[Pekay]

Originally posted by DLH
Pekay,

What are the chances of you blokes playing Div 1 next season? I know the League are quite keen for it to happen.

The Nor-West Jets WILL be going through every avenue possible to return to Division 1,it is our absolute main focus at present.its great,we've actually got people helping and keen to see the club return to its more stable days of the past few years.getting more RAAF players back from long term deployment,a handful we couldnt fit in(or that had other commitments on)and we will be hitting the local North West area,from Parra to Penrith and everywhere in between.i'm officially Recruitment Officer(unofficial the last few years)so its going well so far,we'll see how we go. also cant wait for a return to DERBIES-especially Penriff,as they did very well this year,looked pretty hard at the aggot from what i saw.throw in our Goanna games,fun and games at Rosedale,the (smaller)road trip to the 'Nulla,i dead set cant wait....oh i cant forget my Uni mates as well.

[DLH]

Originally posted by Pekay
The Nor-West Jets WILL be going through every avenue possible to return to Division 1,it is our absolute main focus at present.its great,we've actually got people helping and keen to see the club return to its more stable days of the past few years.getting more RAAF players back from long term deployment,a handful we couldnt fit in(or that had other commitments on)and we will be hitting the local North West area,from Parra to Penrith and everywhere in between.i'm officially Recruitment Officer(unofficial the last few years)so its going well so far,we'll see how we go. also cant wait for a return to DERBIES-especially Penriff,as they did very well this year,looked pretty hard at the aggot from what i saw.throw in our Goanna games,fun and games at Rosedale,the (smaller)road trip to the 'Nulla,i dead set cant wait....oh i cant forget my Uni mates as well.

Good news, well done in getting everything back in order.

I've got no doubt if you guys had been able to keep your 2004 crew on deck you would have given Div 1 a decent shake this year given the relative drop off in standard. We showed some real improvement, but we were helped by two or three clubs falling away pretty drastically.

[Coastal Boy]

IMO a relegation system is only viable in a climate where clubs are a business making a profit each year eg. English Premier League. In a non-profit system there is enough pressure to keep many of the existing clubs afloat. If clubs are good enough they can graduate on their merits and build up the top competition.

I think the A-League has got it right. They could have easily introduced 2 or 3 Sydney teams but chose to put clubs in other viable areas which is best for Soccer in the long run. It is a shame there is not a SFL premier league club in the belt from Ashfield to the mountains. (I consider ECE and Penno to lie north and Campbelltown south). Promotion of another inner city or inner suburban club is a step backwards. IMO we need a Parramatta and/or a Penrith based club in the Premier League. Or even the Jets, Pekay.

[Mightyswans2005]

Originally posted by Coastal Boy
IMO a relegation system is only viable in a climate where clubs are a business making a profit each year eg. English Premier League. In a non-profit system there is enough pressure to keep many of the existing clubs afloat. If clubs are good enough they can graduate on their merits and build up the top competition.

I think the A-League has got it right. They could have easily introduced 2 or 3 Sydney teams but chose to put clubs in other viable areas which is best for Soccer in the long run. It is a shame there is not a SFL premier league club in the belt from Ashfield to the mountains. (I consider ECE and Penno to lie north and Campbelltown south). Promotion of another inner city or inner suburban club is a step backwards. IMO we need a Parramatta and/or a Penrith based club in the Premier League. Or even the Jets, Pekay.

There needs to be a Premier Division side based out west where there shall be plenty of growth with young families and housing development. Then take the top 5 players out of each of parra, penrtih, and the jets, and it shall be a good base to have a competetive side!

THose 3 sides can feed the Premier Division side, with there players that are good enough to play Premier Division and if they arent then they just play back with there local side, ie parra or penrith!

What is everyone's thoughts on Sydney Uni going to Premier Division!

Pekay are you definately going back to First Division?

[Norris Lurker]

Promotion & relegation would be tricky - as Shearer pointed out, teams would need to be able to compete in a higher division not just on the field but off it as well. Having one good season in a lower division, or one bad season in a higher division, isn't necessarily the only benchmark.
An idea I've just had, similar to Humphrey Bear's proposal of using the club championship, is to use Club of the Year points as a second benchmark to determine whether a club can go up or down.
In premier division, a mark could be set at which if the wooden spoon club can achieve that many points they have immunity from relegation. Another line would have to be drawn for first division, that a club needs to not only win the first division premiership but achieve that number of COTY points to be eligible for promotion.
So no promotion and relegation would take place unless the first division premiers get enough COTY points to qualify and the premier division wooden spooners don't get enough COTY points to get immunity.

So if a well-run club is having a bad season and injuries are kicking in, the club still can avoid relegation by doing the off-field things well, and have even more incentive to do so.

[tara]

Originally posted by Mightyswans2005
There needs to be a Premier Division side based out west where there shall be plenty of growth with young families and housing development. Then take the top 5 players out of each of parra, penrtih, and the jets, and it shall be a good base to have a competetive side!

THose 3 sides can feed the Premier Division side, with there players that are good enough to play Premier Division and if they arent then they just play back with there local side, ie parra or penrith!

What is everyone's thoughts on Sydney Uni going to Premier Division!

Pekay are you definately going back to First Division?

Mighty I can see the merit in your suggestion however you would decimate the three sides you are referring to. Parra have been in deline for a few years now and will need a big turn around to climb back up. The Jets could ill afford to lose anyone if Pekays hopes of returning to first division are realised. Lastly Penrith had a good year this year but will have to work very very hard to continue there improvement.

Personally I dislike the presentation in its current format. Not all clubs in first division have the resources available to them that the universities do. By splitting them into seperate divisions ie third and fifth for my club and then sending them to different locations to play will leave alot of clubs in tatters. As it is we have really struggled over the past few years with the onus on the players to keep the club afloat. This year we finally have a an executive committe comprised of non players which should hopefully see the club get back on its feet. By forcing us to play at different locations would probably kill us off.

What plans do the NSW AFL have to combat the lack of umpires in the system at the moment. People can harp on about the clubs having a responsibility to ensure players do not abuse umpires etc as this turns them away but its a bit hard to stomach with the substanded level of umpiring we are dished up with week in and week out. Most reserve games we were involved in last year had no official umpires and the majority of senior matches received one. A prime example of their imcompetence is our lat game against Penrith in seniors. I tackled a bloke in the centre square and was rewarded a free. Penrith held the ball up a bit and I said give us the @@@@ing ball. Whistle blows and I receive a fifty becuase the umpire was adamant the guy with the ball had abused him .

I would rather see first div clubs made to align with premier div clubs and support provided by the AFL to see that its done in the interest of fostering good relationships. One possible way may be creating a club chamions trophy which rewarded the most successful club accross all levels, with financial incentives based on this rather than the current system. It would ensure clubs were more procative in ensuring that thier players were refered to their first of prem div sides instead of elsewhere which currently happens.

Anywasy I should do some work