NSW AFL at their best.

[wheels27]

Originally posted by Gambler
Clearly a game like this will not go ahead....

I think this thread will have no other outcome than us both defending our respective standards of football. This in itself is what makes people so passionate about the game.

I wasn't necessarily defending one league, nor denegrating another, only trying to illustrate that the difference between prem. and 1st div. is not quite the gaping chasm the AFLNSWACT would tend to believe.

This is why some players tend to hop around between the leagues so readily. Players that move down to Div 1 from Prems expecting to dominate without having to work, are usually found out, and by the same token players from Div 1 will usually find a regular spot in any Prem. senior side, if they are willing/able to step up their commitment to training etc.


Having said all that, I feel that the attitude of the powers that be to the lower grades of Sydney footy leaves quite a bit to be desired.

BTW anyone who is interested in checking out the standard of Div 1, bring the kids down for the family day this weekend at Rosedale, and have a look at the Magpies v Rams (probably only two middle of the road teams at this stage, but both on the up)

[william wallace]

In years past (not too long ago though) some prem (SFL) reserve grade sides have played 1st div (SFA) senior sides during pre season. (Whilst the seniors were playing Villi's cup from memory??) I don't remember the exact results, but i do remember noticing that the SFL ressies seemed to win most of these encounters.

Obviously none of the teams in these games would have been at full strength, being pre-season and all, but you would have to imagine that this would impact reasonably evenly on both sides.

[tara]

Willi a few years ago we gave Campbelltown (both grades) a touch up in the pre season in two games. This was the first year we had Chook, Leesy and Royce from memory. Campbelltown were close to full strenght from memory too. Pretty sure we gave Wests a pretty good run as well. Unfortunately last year Luffy's boys gave us a hiding outside the SCG - at least my missus got to work on her tan(whilst the umps had a good perve - dirty old men).

[RPM]

Originally posted by william wallace
In years past (not too long ago though) some prem (SFL) reserve grade sides have played 1st div (SFA) senior sides during pre season. (Whilst the seniors were playing Villi's cup from memory??) I don't remember the exact results, but i do remember noticing that the SFL ressies seemed to win most of these encounters.

Obviously none of the teams in these games would have been at full strength, being pre-season and all, but you would have to imagine that this would impact reasonably evenly on both sides.

William obviously you have been well and truly miss informed i remember not even 3 years ago a certain SWS Firsts beat Campbelltown Firsts in a trial and admitably neither team made finalls that year but i have heard of many of such encounters that end up with similar result if not the Div. 1 side wining they would be very close games this is First Grade on First Grade.

[william wallace]

Tara, RPM,

I apologise, i have to admit i never saw/heard of this result. Whilst beating town in an era where they went without a win for approx 24 months is not exactly conclusive evidence of much at all, it does show that there are fluctuations in abilities and talents on show in all leagues in sydney. I'd love to see a match go ahead... I'd doubt if it would ever happen (outside of praccy match) but would love to see it if it did. Its an interesting arguement, but one that without a series of games would be impossible to answer conlcusively.

[william wallace]

Originally posted by Coastal Boy
NB: there seems to be a major drop in footy standards across the board this year with the only exception being ECE.

What are you basing this on CB? Have you been viewing all teams or is this based on ladder position? I think you will find saints are undefeated too. Which is a vast improvement for them from 05'.

[Monty Burns2]

I've watched both Sydney Uni 1sts and Bulldogs reserves play this year and don't think that you could split them. At any given time, however, Syd Uni may be slightly stronger, given that a 2nd grade side is twice as likely to lose a player through injury than a 1st grade side.

As a guide, in 2002 when the Bulldogs 2s were in the then SFA they won the GF (against Syd Uni) - but were not miles ahead of the competition. Last year a very similar Bulldogs side (in both personnel, ability and playing style) won the GF in the now Premier Division Reserve grade - again without being miles ahead of the comp.

I've also seen bottom sides of each comp play and don't think that there'd be much difference there either.

If a competitive team in one comp was uprooted and placed in the other comp they'd still be competitive, in my opinion.

[wheels27]

Originally posted by tara
Pretty sure we gave Wests a pretty good run as well.

We belted them by about 10 or 12 goals, again, like the Town game they were probably way under strength, but by the same token we didn't make finals that year either. We were by no means the benchmark for our competition at that time.

I don't know if many other teams play these type of trials pre-season, I think ours are often a product of fairly good relationships between geographically and historically close clubs.

The fact that last year we got smashed by UNSW-ES shows probably just how poor we were, don't forget we didn't win a game in our own comp last year.

[House]

Having seen both comps this year I feel confident in saying the better Premier Reserve Grade sides would occupy the top positions on the ladder if they played in 1st Division. The skill level is far superior let alone taking fitness, decision making and football smarts in to the equation. Anyone who thinks any different is a poor judge of football.

[Rafters]

Originally posted by Coastal Boy
Come on Rafters, I know you have played in all divisions of all comps. Give us a take on it.

My opinion is that the SFA premiers would beat the SFL reserves premiers 8 times out of ten. Likewise I think the reserves premiers in both SFA & SFL would beat the bottom two in the seniors 8 times out of ten.

I think the best example to use is a recent real one where the 2004 SFA premiers Wollongong stepped up to premier League & were pretty competitive last year winning a few games early on with a pretty similar side but probably slightly weaker one to their GF with Webb (now at C'Town) being one major difference.

I found SFL reserves last year to be of pretty average standard & really only the top 2 teams would have been close to SFA Seniors standard of a few years ago. I believe the Wollongong 2004 GF team would easily account for the premier league reserve grade premiers from 2004 (whoever they were).

Another recent memory was the UNSW-ES merger when the 2nd best side of the combined entity won the SFA title (& also SFL title) that year - partly due to a combination of the best players from 2nd & 3rds.

I think a best available SFA rep team would cause some serious carnage in the SFL - as mentioned earlier most teams have about 3-4 top notch players but the difference in the pecking order is determined by the strength of players 14-22. The standard really falls away in the bottom sides.

When 16 a side footy was around a few years ago it created a different brand of footy in SFL compared to 18 a side SFA.

Cairns footy was the best standard comp that I have played in - lots of QAFL & VFA & ex AFL boys go up there. It was good to see a former teammate in Jason Roe make his AFL debut for the Lions on the weekend against the Swans. They have been more successful in the AFL draft than the NSWAFL over the years as well. It is considered the 2nd best footy in Qld behind QAFL but the 2 rep sides haven't played each other for some time now.

[Coastal Boy]

Originally posted by william wallace
What are you basing this on CB? Have you been viewing all teams or is this based on ladder position? I think you will find saints are undefeated too. Which is a vast improvement for them from 05'.

Well I believe North Shore started the season against Wests without 10 players from last years GF and Wests without 12. To my knowledge neither has recruited as well as they would have liked and players from the 2s last year were out there trying to cement spots in first grade.

I was speaking with a UNSW player on the weekend who said his club overall was a shadow of itself from the year before.

So there we have the 3 top clubs from last year who have not been able to replace the players they have lost. Incidently Penno are not firing either. Might be some sort of downward cycle of imports to Sydney which affects every club and thus the competition on the whole is weaker. Albeit St George has picked up and so have Town but this is exaggerated against weaker opposition. I say ECE may be the exception with a good list in 1s and 2s backing up from last year.

I have seen some BDAFL games and the standard seems to have declined also for similar reasons I would expect.

Is the competition on a whole weaker this year??? I think so.

[william wallace]

Originally posted by Coastal Boy
Well I believe North Shore started the season against Wests without 10 players from last years GF and Wests without 12. To my knowledge neither has recruited as well as they would have liked and players from the 2s last year were out there trying to cement spots in first grade.

I was speaking with a UNSW player on the weekend who said his club overall was a shadow of itself from the year before.

So there we have the 3 top clubs from last year who have not been able to replace the players they have lost. Incidently Penno are not firing either. Might be some sort of downward cycle of imports to Sydney which affects every club and thus the competition on the whole is weaker. Albeit St George has picked up and so have Town but this is exaggerated against weaker opposition. I say ECE may be the exception with a good list in 1s and 2s backing up from last year.

I have seen some BDAFL games and the standard seems to have declined also for similar reasons I would expect.

Is the competition on a whole weaker this year??? I think so.

Probably a fair point at this stage CB and having not seen many games myself so far this season i cannot really argue either way on this one, i was just curious as to what you were basing your statements on.

On a side note, IIRC the top 3 teams from last year were North shore, Wests and Penno. UNSW was 4th.

[tara]

Congratulations to the Management at the NSW AFL yet again.

At present we have SWS and Parramatta doing their upmost to field two competitive teams each week without any assistance.

You then have Norwest and St Clair as stand alone clubs in Third div, two teams that are trying to build up over the long term with plans of playing in First Div eventually.

Come the end of 2006 both Norwest and St Clair will have to either (a) move to Div 1 (b) merge with another club (c) fold.

From 2007 onwards no more stand alone clubs in Thirds.

So potentially for the 2007 we could see 2 new teams in Div 1 or 2 less, I reckon it will be the toss of a coin that decides.

Pesonnally I think it would serve the NSW AFL right if they ended up with only 15 senior clubs in the Sydney Metro area .

Next time the AFL tells us all what a great job their doing just remind them that they only have 9 Prem Div Clubs and 10 in the divisons below, which potentially may be 9 Prem Div and 6 others from 2007 onwards.

Maybe these blokes should concentrate on managing the game up here instead of becoming selectors of the rep sides.

[DLH]

Originally posted by tara
Congratulations to the Management at the NSW AFL yet again.

At present we have SWS and Parramatta doing their upmost to field two competitive teams each week without any assistance.

You then have Norwest and St Clair as stand alone clubs in Third div, two teams that are trying to build up over the long term with plans of playing in First Div eventually.

Come the end of 2006 both Norwest and St Clair will have to either (a) move to Div 1 (b) merge with another club (c) fold.

From 2007 onwards no more stand alone clubs in Thirds.

And you can add Penrith to the list of clubs struggling to field two competitve sides. The common denominator here is geography, the greater west continues to struggle unfortunately due to demographics and I'm not sure what the solution is frankly.

As for stand alone clubs, I have every sympathy for the Jets given their circumstances and I'd be pretty hopeful they are back in Div 1 next season.

I have far less sympathy for St.Clair who never should have been able to form a senior club in the first place (thanks Mr Davis!!) whilst you have a Div 1 club literally 10 minutes up the road struggling like blazers to even field two sides. Resources in the Penrith area (players/coaches/support staff/sponsors) are paper thin as it is without trying to support two senior clubs.

Neither will prosper while ever the current situation is maintained, and to that end I support the League's decision.

[tara]

Originally posted by DLH
And you can add Penrith to the list of clubs struggling to field two competitve sides. The common denominator here is geography, the greater west continues to struggle unfortunately due to demographics and I'm not sure what the solution is frankly.

As for stand alone clubs, I have every sympathy for the Jets given their circumstances and I'd be pretty hopeful they are back in Div 1 next season.

I have far less sympathy for St.Clair who never should have been able to form a senior club in the first place (thanks Mr Davis!!) whilst you have a Div 1 club literally 10 minutes up the road struggling like blazers to even field two sides. Resources in the Penrith area (players/coaches/support staff/sponsors) are paper thin as it is without trying to support two senior clubs.

Neither will prosper while ever the current situation is maintained, and to that end I support the League's decision.

I share you pain and agree their decision with St Clair is short sighted to say the least.

Congrats to your blokes last week too. Can say that the ressies game was played in good spirit although I would have liked to have had our full complement on the field so I didnt have to play.