Round 11 Tips

[Batman]

Originally posted by KangaCoach
Will tips be changed if the Campbelltown v Crows game is changed to the correct result of a DRAW?

What is the latest with the handling of the score dispute with the St George C'town game last weekend? Surely after the precedent set by the AFL in relation to the Freo St Kilda game earlier this year then the 'correct' result (a draw by all reports) must stand???

Also, given the new M/R (match ratio) system used by the SFL this year it would appear to me that a draw is as good as a loss. Previously you would have had 2 points for a draw. Now, if the ratio is utilised as it states (your wins divided by your total games played) then a draw is the same as a loss! Can anyone explain if this i s the case or if in fact the draw is counted as a "1/2 win" for the purposes of the M/R??

[shearer]

The goal umpires agreed upon the score being in St Georges favour by two points. According to the AFL's bylaws this means St George gets the points.

[Batman]

But if the Fox Footy replay does in fact show the game to be a draw do you think that the game should be called a draw or stick with the original, and wrong (allegedly) outcome??

Interesting to see how the SAFL handle this one actually. Is it being lookd into at all. I have only heard heresay on the issue to date.

[shearer]

Batman yes its being investigated at the moment, decision will probably be made next week.

[Norris Lurker]

Originally posted by Batman
Also, given the new M/R (match ratio) system used by the SFL this year it would appear to me that a draw is as good as a loss. Previously you would have had 2 points for a draw. Now, if the ratio is utilised as it states (your wins divided by your total games played) then a draw is the same as a loss! Can anyone explain if this i s the case or if in fact the draw is counted as a "1/2 win" for the purposes of the M/R??

That's correct.
Looking at the reserves ladder, where Wollongong and Wests have played a draw, Wollongong's 3.5 wins from 8 games translates to a match ratio of 43.75 and Wests' 2.5 from 7 = 35.71.
Match ratio rather than points will be of critical importance in reserves - with UNSW-ES and East Coast having byes washed out and therefore having missed 1 game when all the other clubs have missed 2. Using the straight 4 points would have given those clubs a bigger advantage and disadvantaged the rest - which unfortunately affected the top 2 in First Division last year.

[KangaCoach]

Originally posted by shearer
very simple story Floppinab.

The Campbelltown Scoreboard, the goal umpires & timekeepers all had St George winning by 2 points.

Our time keeper certainly didn't agree with the score and only changed as per everyone else once the Goal Umpires waived off on what was the wrong score.

Having watched the FULL game from Digital Sports and recorded the scores twice there is no disputing that the result official or otherwise is incorrect and in fact a draw.

What did you think the score was?

[ash]

DRAW

Let Ash handle this as he does all matters in this forum

Final result was 2 points in favour of Crows. Finalised by all umpires and officials on the day.

Game over! Corws 2 points.

Why???

Not every game is videoed by Fox Footy. If the draw is to be upheld on the grounds that the video by Fox Footy is accurate, then that would mean every game in the Sydney AFL would need to be on an equal footing and videotaped as well.

Now do we all see the logic????

I symphasise slightly for C'Town and Kanga coach. However, cop it on the chin as I would if it happened to Penno. By the way, didnt you have someone score the game throughout in a such an important and close match?

[Roo]

I understand where you are coming from Ash, but fortunately there is video footage and if that video shows the score to be different then it should be changed.

And im sure if it happened to penno you would not take it on the chin, but you would fight for the correct result, especially as this could be critical to your finals chances.

Interesting to see what comes of this.

[KangaCoach]

Re: DRAW

Originally posted by ash
Let Ash handle this as he does all matters in this forum

Final result was 2 points in favour of Crows. Finalised by all umpires and officials on the day.

Game over! Corws 2 points.

Why???

Not every game is videoed by Fox Footy. If the draw is to be upheld on the grounds that the video by Fox Footy is accurate, then that would mean every game in the Sydney AFL would need to be on an equal footing and videotaped as well.

Now do we all see the logic????

I symphasise slightly for C'Town and Kanga coach. However, cop it on the chin as I would if it happened to Penno. By the way, didnt you have someone score the game throughout in a such an important and close match?

Yes we have a number of people who record the score. Stats, Team Manager and time keeper as well as video every game.

Every one of them had the 3 quarter time score different to the scoreboard. Interestingly enough both goal umpires cards had 3 points ( correctly) recorded for Campbelltown and both crossed the third off on their scorecards. As noted by our statatician the scoreboard had put a point on for the Crows instead of Campbelltown giving them 6 points for the quarter instead of 5 and us 2 instead of 3.

So you tell me what the Goal Umpires have based their score on!

[Henry]

Re: Re: DRAW

Originally posted by KangaCoach
Yes we have a number of people who record the score. Stats, Team Manager and time keeper as well as video every game.

Every one of them had the 3 quarter time score different to the scoreboard. Interestingly enough both goal umpires cards had 3 points ( correctly) recorded for Campbelltown and both crossed the third off on their scorecards. As noted by our statatician the scoreboard had put a point on for the Crows instead of Campbelltown giving them 6 points for the quarter instead of 5 and us 2 instead of 3.

So you tell me what the Goal Umpires have based their score on!

So did the same scorecards both have a point added onto the Crows score so as to account for the 2-point differential we're all talking about? Probably hard to tell, I guess they could just wack another dash on and nobody would ever know providing they hadn't already added up the column. Very strange, umpires changing their cards to agree with the scoreboard. It's usually the other way round.

At the end of the day, we can summise forever. The precedent of using technology to change a result has been set at the highest level already this year, so if the FOX Footy coverage shows it's a draw, then I'm sure they'll be compelled to change the result.

[wheels27]

Re: DRAW

Originally posted by ash
Let Ash handle this as he does all matters in this forum



Not every game is videoed by Fox Footy. If the draw is to be upheld on the grounds that the video by Fox Footy is accurate, then that would mean every game in the Sydney AFL would need to be on an equal footing and videotaped as well.

Now do we all see the logic????

2 examples:

The grand final up in QLD a couple of years ago, I don't believe every game in their comp is televised, yet because the Grand Final footage ended up on every news bulletin in the country life bans and massive suspensions were handed out after the fact. An all-in brawl like that in a non-televised game wouldn't have attracted so much action.

Life ban for a bloke punching the ref a couple of weeks ago, it was on every news so stern action taken.

Both cases correct result was found using evidence that may not have been available at all games at that level, but, given such irrefutable evidence (as it seems the Roos have) action HAD to be taken.

Although, granted not taking action will not be a blight on the game as the above examples would have been so I , like Woodsy, foresee no action being taken by our administrators, but just because you believe a certain course of action will be taken, doesn't mean you shouldn't fight like buggery to get a result. If I were with C'town, I wouldn't be taking it on the chin just yet.

[Rafters]

If the evidence is irrefutable - ie video shows the correct score should have been a draw & there is evidence to show the 3 points in the 3rd quarter - then I believe that commonsense should prevail & the correct result recorded.

That sounds like the simplest decision to make - the interesting decision is what to do with the officials that scored it differently. Would make great footage if the cameras had beamed in on them at 3/4 time. I am sure that they won't make the same mistake again.

What score was Fox Footy showing on the bottom of the screen?

Another guaranteed ratings win for Sydney Fox Footy - Channel Ed will be tearing its hair out after losing the Friday 8.30pm slot for the umpteenth time this year!!

[Rafters]

Re: Re: DRAW

Originally posted by wheels27
The grand final up in QLD a couple of years ago, I don't believe every game in their comp is televised, yet because the Grand Final footage ended up on every news bulletin in the country life bans and massive suspensions were handed out after the fact. An all-in brawl like that in a non-televised game wouldn't have attracted so much action.

The Cairns footy comp actually has a pretty high profile with the media on a week to week basis - Channel 7 & 9 cameras would cover highlights on at least 2 games each week as well as The Cairns Post having a few snaps & write up of each game for Monday's paper.

The Cairns AFL president, Russell Beer, called in the police in the first quarter of the GF & an informal meeting of the board was held about whether to call off the GF there & then. It was ultimately decided to not award the premiership. Admittedly there was pressure from AD's office in Melbourne but as the Cairns board have several high profile lawyers making it up, and knowing them pretty well, I am sure that they probably would have given the same result if there was no national coverage at all.

Interesting that most suspensions have now been served, apart from coach Jason Love's, and that a large majority of the players have left Nth Cairns to other clubs in the comp.

[humphrey bear]

I am not suggesting it has happened but it is not hard to edit out a point or a goal and the someone watching a video would be none the wiser.

Result must stand.

Goal umpires should have to attend training at Monarch one day this week and take part in a full contact practice session.

[deadan]

Originally posted by Batman
But if the Fox Footy replay does in fact show the game to be a draw do you think that the game should be called a draw or stick with the original, and wrong (allegedly) outcome??

Interesting to see how the SAFL handle this one actually. Is it being lookd into at all. I have only heard heresay on the issue to date.

Heresay? Maybe we should burn the Goal umpires at the stake ?