New Coaches

[tara]

Originally posted by Pekay
What i'm trying to figure out is why this was never brought up in 04 when my ressies were getting pumped by 40+ goals every week??Is it the poor uni's that want to protect their images?? When i asked 1 of our "powerbrokers" if UNSW were to move up to Div 1 with us,the answer i got was "they're in a different demographic to Jets,they will struggle'' i nearly fell off my chair. Being a uni-in the eastern suburbs,with its beaches pubs lifestyle etc-they have no excuses for not having numbers....Whether they're competitive or not shouldnt matter a pittance,it didnt for the Jets when we were getting smacked.As for Sydney Uni Reds n Blues,they should-along with UNSWs teams-be pushed up to Div 1 with my mob,and make whatever fist of it they can..Otherwise,its rules for some......and for the record,we'll hold our own next year,when i "poach" KangaCoach that is

Pekay couldnt agree more. Anyway speaking of poaching what are you doing next year I need a new full back.

[tara]

Originally posted by Woodsy
IMO clubs should be able to move between divisions as their fortunes dictate.

I see nothing wrong with Norwest dropping down to regroup and if the Div 3 Uni clubs are not strong enough to compete at Div 2 next year then I see no reason why they cannot stay at Div 3.

In time we should have a fourth and even fifth division like they have in AFL in Brisbane and like the subbies in Union.

What I have a major problem with is some dictatorial decree from the farmyard animals at NSWAFL HQ stating that clubs cannot stand alone at Div 3.

If enforced Norwest would have folded and the game would be much poorer for it.

I think you will see one club at SFA level in the next season or so fold if they cannot take this option.

Woodsy what are you talking about havnt you heard the game is thriving up here in the northern states

[Coastal Boy]

The reason the league makes these decisions is to protect individual clubs from bad internal administrators. Look no further than Uni Syd back in 1992/3. The salary cap in the AFL is not designed to spread out the talent but to protect clubs from over spending and going broke. Look at Carlton. I know the NRL clubs must prove they can afford to buy players up to the salary cap or the NRL will lower it for the club. You might say why not have "Survival of the Fittest" but a competition suffers immensely financially if any club goes broke and it is bad for the sport(unless the sport is absolutely thriving, ie NFL, Premier League Soccer). They do not want in 10 years time only 1 local competition with 3 teams cause the others all went belly up due to bad admin and finances. Whether the NSWAFL were thinking along these lines I aint sure.

[Coastal Boy]

Originally posted by Woodsy
You sure you aren't replying to the wrong post CB cause your post make no sense at all to me....

Trying to work out the relevance of the salary cap, NRL, AFL, Carlton, Premier League soccer to our amateur sport run by volunteers and governed by idiots.

I am responding to the topic which includes your reply:

"IMO clubs should be able to move between divisions as their fortunes dictate."

What I am saying is that all decisions involving club movement need to consider the long term welfare of the league and the sport. Those other examples were highlighting the fact that many rules in other sports have dual reasons and may serve a purpose people may not realise.

[Coastal Boy]

What the league is telling you, if the club cannot sustain a team in the SFA then it is a management problem which will not improve regardless of what division the team is in. You are entiltled to think differently though it is clear that the NSWAFL believes clubs in Sydney are on the whole very poorly managed which is why they have no time for many clubs.

[tara]

CB your joking arnt you. The AFL in NSW is run like a joke. Norwest last year were told they couldnt compete in the SFA becuase they didnt have two sides, now they are told the must compete in the SFA regardless becuase under the new rules there is not place for them in third Div.

At SWS we only competed in 1st Div becuase we had gained a new sponsor and were expected to be fielding two sides. It would have been a far better decision from a team building and morale point of view to field one side in 3rds which would have been very competitive and ensured blokes on the track on training nights. However from a long term survival point of view finanical backing is crucial. We are one club in 1st div that pays its way and doesnt owe money yet the league cant be bothered to supply ump's to our ressies games and on most occasions we'd be lucky to see more than one field ump. This doesnt happen in town from what ive seen. In fact they seem to come on in droves.

Why doesnt the AFL come out and meet with the clubs individually and address the needs of each club on their merits rather than on a collective basis? It fails to recognise that most people who are involved at clubs are volunteers who actually have paying jobs and dont find it that easy to drink @@@@ and play golf with them. Why not come out and sit with the clubs at the regular board meeting each has and really get an understanding of what is going on.

[tara]

Originally posted by Coastal Boy
What the league is telling you, if the club cannot sustain a team in the SFA then it is a management problem which will not improve regardless of what division the team is in. You are entiltled to think differently though it is clear that the NSWAFL believes clubs in Sydney are on the whole very poorly managed which is why they have no time for many clubs.

What a load of @@@@. We run on the smell of an oily rag by a small group of volunteers who get nothing out of it other than the satisfaction of giving something back to football and their club in general. I work 60-80 hours per week in my normal job then another 10-20 every second weeked doing some work on the side. I devote as much time as I can to the club. The NSW AFL are paid to administer the game up here and if they have not time for clubs they see as poorly run then they should @@@@ right off as they are definately not the right people. They cannot even supply umpires to games let alone umpires of a decent standard. If managment in the real world took that view then theire businesses would fall apart.

Or are you really saying that the people in charge of the NSWAFL are snobs and really couldnt be bothered with the Western Suburbs of Sydney unless they are affluent suburbs like Penno or Baulko?

[Coastal Boy]

Tara, what is the financial difference for a club to enter a team in SFA 2s or 3rd division? I would think the answer is none. So you tell me you would prefer to enter your 2s in 3rd division?? Why? So you wont get flogged??? Sorry but I reckon that is not good enough.

I am not bagging out any club particularly in the SFA. All I am doing is pointing out the fact that the NSWAFL really only has time for clubs having a go. Therefore at this point they do not have any time for any club in Sydney in any division. They want all clubs looking like those in the ACTAFL.

I agree that the NSWAFL should be doing more. Their goal is the promotion of AFL in NSW to the point where a second AFL team is introduced here. Local teams and junior player numbers are meaningless. Touch football, basketball and netball have more players across australia than any sport but that does not generate tv audiences and cash flow.

If I was the NSWAFL I would tell all clubs in the SFA to get their act together and put 2 sides on the paddock in the same division.
If clubs want professionalism from the NSWAFL they should be closer to securing sponsorship and hiring full time staff than deciding if they have enough players for the 2s.

Do not shoot the messenger. Just look at the bigger picture.

[humphrey bear]

Originally posted by tara
CB
Why doesnt the AFL come out and meet with the clubs individually and address the needs of each club on their merits rather than on a collective basis?

Because they dont give a @@@@.

They wouldnt get any publicity, thay are a lazy group of oxygen thieves and they have a cabcharge limit of $50 after lunch and there is a perception that restaurants in the Eastern Suburbs are superior.

[tara]

Originally posted by Coastal Boy
Tara, what is the financial difference for a club to enter a team in SFA 2s or 3rd division? I would think the answer is none. So you tell me you would prefer to enter your 2s in 3rd division?? Why? So you wont get flogged??? Sorry but I reckon that is not good enough.

I am not bagging out any club particularly in the SFA. All I am doing is pointing out the fact that the NSWAFL really only has time for clubs having a go. Therefore at this point they do not have any time for any club in Sydney in any division. They want all clubs looking like those in the ACTAFL.

I agree that the NSWAFL should be doing more. Their goal is the promotion of AFL in NSW to the point where a second AFL team is introduced here. Local teams and junior player numbers are meaningless. Touch football, basketball and netball have more players across australia than any sport but that does not generate tv audiences and cash flow.

If I was the NSWAFL I would tell all clubs in the SFA to get their act together and put 2 sides on the paddock in the same division.
If clubs want professionalism from the NSWAFL they should be closer to securing sponsorship and hiring full time staff than deciding if they have enough players for the 2s.

Do not shoot the messenger. Just look at the bigger picture.

So let me get this right. You are saying that effectively who gives a @@@@ about football in any form other than AFL at the highest level. If that is the case then why do we need a NSW AFL at all the AFL in Victoria has secured the TV rights and that should be enough. Why waste anymore money than you need to.

Also as for dropping to third grade to avoid the floggings, well Camden dropped to the South Coast League for this reason, NSW Uni (a traditonally strong SFA club) have also done so for no other reason than that.

Its all well and good for the AFL to criticse those in SFA clubs for not doing enough but what the @@@@ would they know what we are doing when we never see them. Fifteen years ago the Swans were getting flogged week in and week out and we so desperate for numbers that I even got in for free becuase I wore a St George Bank pen on the front of my Carlton jumper - you only needed to have a bit of red on to get in for nothing , yet the senior competitions in Metropolitan Sydney were in far better shape than they are now. Turn the clock forward fifteen years and the game couldnt be more popular and the Swans are on top of the world(almost) yet the senior competetions consist of one so called Premier Division and the remaining competetions are in complete disaray with club after clubs going to the wall.

The AFL sees fit to promote junior football everywhere and the clubs that are available. Just walk into a Macca's pick up one of the Auskick pamphlets and they advise where the junior clubs are in the area. Why cant they do that for senior footy as well? We are not asking for handouts just some assistance in promoting ourselves and making our presence known in the hope of attracting more numbers to the clubs. More numbers means more competetion for places which in turn will lead to better competitveness at clubs.

[Pekay]

Originally posted by Coastal Boy
Tara, what is the financial difference for a club to enter a team in SFA 2s or 3rd division? I would think the answer is none. So you tell me you would prefer to enter your 2s in 3rd division?? Why? So you wont get flogged??? Sorry but I reckon that is not good enough.

If I was the NSWAFL I would tell all clubs in the SFA to get their act together and put 2 sides on the paddock in the same division.

Do not shoot the messenger. Just look at the bigger picture.

I'll tell you from experience.The financial difference is affiliation fees(????)and insurance.The difference between 1 and 2 teams is about $1500-2500.Quite alot of money when your club has none at the time.We made the decision to drop down to Div2 on a number of factors.One was the fact that had we stayed in Div1,we would've been forced to back up ressies with 1st Grade, not hard if your team has middle distance runners and ex-AFL players,but impossible for us sub-amatuers.This was my train of thought-we'd worked hard on our 2s,after getting beaten in 03 by an average of 190 pts,to win 3 games in 04(a club record) and create list depth.Now try losing your president,whole committee and in excess of 70 players in the space of 2 weeks,and having your clubs future rest in your hands....What do you do?Field 2 teams in the hope numbers turn up?Had we fielded 2 teams in 05 with a list of 25,and started copping the inevitable hidings,we wouldve lost players to the game FOREVER.How can the AFL promote growth if they wont allow a single team to start up somewhere??Its hard enough for us,with 25 years in Hawkesbury,to field 2 teams,let alone a team from say between Penrith and Campbelltown to come into existence.Hands are tied.

[Coastal Boy]

I take in what you are saying. I do not necessarily agree.

With Syd Uni going up a division would you prefer SWS in 3rd Div with Norwest Jets leaving a 6 team SFA????

[Pekay]

Originally posted by Coastal Boy
I take in what you are saying. I do not necessarily agree.

With Syd Uni going up a division would you prefer SWS in 3rd Div with Norwest Jets leaving a 6 team SFA????

At the end of the day CB,i'm not employed by the AFL to promote the game,or to make sure the comp i'm playing in is strong enough. MY one only sole job is to make sure the blokes that play out here have somewhere to play,be it in Premiers,Div 1 or 2,Central West,who cares?!If you've been around Sydney Footy long enough,you'll remember that Hawkesbury Penrith and a few other clubs still around now, were SDFA Div 2 clubs.Both Saints and Rams of the time used to share premierships(even players) and were competitive,relative to the comp they played in,and the area they represent.All with one team under their banner.Keep in mind,from wherever you sit in this big basin,that the west clubs(Jets,Penrith,SWS,Ctown,St Clair Holroyd etc)are toiling away in the HARDEST MARKET IN AUSTRALIA,for no pay,to give the more comfortable teams somewhere to come and have a game.If it wasnt for the hard workers in the west,you'd have no footy to watch,or play,or criticise.I dont give a rats khyber if UTS play Manly and Cronulla 9 times a year,as long as my club is stable,and playing footy,not pandering to what looks better to those looking at our comp,or the powers that be.Ask Tara,he'll probably tell you the same.

[tara]

Acutally Liverpool, Bankstown and Camden were also SFA Div 2 around 15 years ago. Bankstown came up first followed by the others a year or two later.

Funny thing is with the exception of Campbelltown the other five teams you have mentioned are stuggling to survive at the moment and without the input of keen volunteers could all easily go to the wall.

I expect both ourselves and the Jets to be much stonger positions next year but wouldnt be suprised that without some support from the AFL one and maybe two of those sides are gone.

[Coastal Boy]

Do not get me wrong. I agree that it is terrible if a club is lost because it can be forever. Which is why I do not like to see a club go down a division because it can also often be forever. Thus I would feel if a club is having a bad run they should hope to ride it out and not take an easier option. The league has not done enough to foster the game in the Sydney's west - in fact have been terrible. But clubs should concentrate on getting themselves right and not blame the league everytime something is not right. No offense intended to anyone.