St Clair deregistered - Sydney footy screws up again

[humphrey bear]

DLH

It is interesting that most people round here without a vested interest seem to think deregistering a club and stopping anybody from playing footy is a bad idea.

Any group of people like the group that had the iniative to start a club like those at St Clair should be appluaded and assisted. More clubs can only mean more options for people to play footy which can only be good.

Penrith footy club has proved over a long period of time it is spectacularly unsuccessful at attracting new players. Surely trying different things in the area like a new club must be better than the tried and failed method of the last 20 years.

You are right , I might't have any idea but I am not involved in a club that cant field 2 teams despite being in the biggest growth area in the country over 30 yeays where every other sport has tripled and quadrupled in numbers.

Might be time to look in your own backyard instead of blaming demographics the AFL and whoever else comes to mind.

[tara]

Originally posted by humphrey bear
You are right , I might't have any idea but I am not involved in a club that cant field 2 teams despite being in the biggest growth area in the country over 30 yeays where every other sport has tripled and quadrupled in numbers.

There in lies the problem. You dont understand the demographics of the area.

I agree with you that the more clubs the better but at the end of the day Div 1 clubs only have so many resources at their disposal. They are run entirely by volunteers who all work hard just to ensure clubs stay alive.

The AFL has the gall to charge licencing rights to be able to play in their competition but then throws their arms up in the air when we ask there assistance and tells us its our problem and we should get our own backyard in order. They are the ones with the money to promote the game so they should be doing that.

Unfortunately the underlying mentallity up here is Premier Div is the only one that counts and all others are just park footy and means nothing . Ive played with alot of footballers who would easily be stars in our Prem Div comp but for personnal reasons and loyalty they stayed in 1st Div. No one can tell me that they only do it so they have it easy in a lesser comp.

The AFL really needs to look at who they have running the game up here and put the right people in or at least employ more so that they have enough people to ensure that the game grows.

Call me cynical if you want but the AFL doesnt care about our senior competitions below Prem Div. They only care about money and TV rights. They promote the game at junior levels and then pat themselves on thier back about NSW kids getting drafted by AFL clubs but thats where it all ends. As far as they are concerned if you dont make it in the draft then you dont count.

They really need to get their heads out of the sand and look at workable ways to help promote stuggling clubs and assist them with the running of the clubs.

[DLH]

Originally posted by humphrey bear
DLH

It is interesting that most people round here without a vested interest seem to think deregistering a club and stopping anybody from playing footy is a bad idea.

Any group of people like the group that had the iniative to start a club like those at St Clair should be appluaded and assisted. More clubs can only mean more options for people to play footy which can only be good.

Penrith footy club has proved over a long period of time it is spectacularly unsuccessful at attracting new players. Surely trying different things in the area like a new club must be better than the tried and failed method of the last 20 years.

You are right , I might't have any idea but I am not involved in a club that cant field 2 teams despite being in the biggest growth area in the country over 30 yeays where every other sport has tripled and quadrupled in numbers.

Might be time to look in your own backyard instead of blaming demographics the AFL and whoever else comes to mind.

People seem to be forgetting that St.Clair is first and foremost a JUNIOR club. The senior arm was an afterthought, the club will remain and continue to flourish.

No one is advocating people be deprived of footy, simply that they use the resources that are currently in place. There are three senior clubs within easy distance that all find things tough, that would I'm sure welcome anyone who wanted to have a kick.

Let's say you were involved with North Shore. Would you be happy if Manly decided that they were doing pretty well and should be promoted to Premier Division and the League agreed. What then if on top of that a few people at a junior club, let's make one up and call them the Brookvale Bandits, decided that there was now an opportunity for a Div 1 club so they thought they would start one up. The League say great, we're all for as many clubs as we can get regardless of where they are and give it the rubber stamp.

What would North Shore think then? That make two Premier Division clubs and a First Division club in one area. Would it be self interest and whinging to be concerned about the viabilty of that?

[Rafters]

I don't know what the goals of Sydney footy are but in the next ten years there needs to be another 50 senior teams playing.

Yes that is right 50 teams or 1000 players!! The cash is there ... the kids are starting to play the game now ... and the Swans have created a positive profile in the city. We need to capitalize on this now.

If there are 300 guys wanting to play footy in a region (eg Manly/Brookvale/Nth Shore/Wiloughby) then encourage them to play. I couldn't careless if they all end up in Premier league - if they are good enough then they should be playing in it - no point in diminishing the comp by placing restrictions.

The reserve grade concept in each club should be redundant. If a club is strong enough to have 2 teams then great but don't penalise them if they don't.

I started playing footy with Auburn in the SFA 2 - before having the opportunity to play in other leagues - if I didn't have that chance to start there I doubt if I would have had the confidence to go & play with Parra. I am certain that a few young fellas would like to try a year at St Clair seniors before moving to Penrith.

Just think of the great rivalry (and crowd) at a Penrith v St Clair match or a Manly v Nth Shore match ... would be great to see.

In Melbourne there are various district leagues/regions and they have a number of grades in each league. There are different clubs in each grade.

We should be looking at that as a base for future development - by all means encourage a local comp within areas - a detraction for playing footy with Penrith would have to be the travel to Manly & Sutherland each year just like it is a deterrent for juniors.

Sydney could be split up into regions like juniors & the winners of each comp could play at the end of the year for the right to win the Sydney title. Then the winners of other leagues across the state can play for the state title - like they do in Champion of Champions for soccer.

The unis (Syd, UTS, Mac etc) & Penno have to be applauded for getting as many to play the game each week.

Let there be more footy played in Sydney. With so many playing league, soccer, cricket, indoor sports each week there is scope for more to play footy each week.

[tara]

Originally posted by Rafters
I don't know what the goals of Sydney footy are but in the next ten years there needs to be another 50 senior teams playing.

Yes that is right 50 teams or 1000 players!! The cash is there ... the kids are starting to play the game now ... and the Swans have created a positive profile in the city. We need to capitalize on this now.

If there are 300 guys wanting to play footy in a region (eg Manly/Brookvale/Nth Shore/Wiloughby) then encourage them to play. I couldn't careless if they all end up in Premier league - if they are good enough then they should be playing in it - no point in diminishing the comp by placing restrictions.

The reserve grade concept in each club should be redundant. If a club is strong enough to have 2 teams then great but don't penalise them if they don't.

I started playing footy with Auburn in the SFA 2 - before having the opportunity to play in other leagues - if I didn't have that chance to start there I doubt if I would have had the confidence to go & play with Parra. I am certain that a few young fellas would like to try a year at St Clair seniors before moving to Penrith.

Just think of the great rivalry (and crowd) at a Penrith v St Clair match or a Manly v Nth Shore match ... would be great to see.

In Melbourne there are various district leagues/regions and they have a number of grades in each league. There are different clubs in each grade.

We should be looking at that as a base for future development - by all means encourage a local comp within areas - a detraction for playing footy with Penrith would have to be the travel to Manly & Sutherland each year just like it is a deterrent for juniors.

Sydney could be split up into regions like juniors & the winners of each comp could play at the end of the year for the right to win the Sydney title. Then the winners of other leagues across the state can play for the state title - like they do in Champion of Champions for soccer.

The unis (Syd, UTS, Mac etc) & Penno have to be applauded for getting as many to play the game each week.

Let there be more footy played in Sydney. With so many playing league, soccer, cricket, indoor sports each week there is scope for more to play footy each week.

Agree 100% but the big question is how do we get the governing body to take the dream and make a plan to ensure this happens?

[DLH]

Just to be clear, I'm all for as many people as possible playing footy. I would love nothing more than every suburb in Sydney having its own flourishing footy club.

Unfortunately, reality says that at present we just don't have sufficient numbers, hopefully one day with continued investment and kids coming through that will happen.

The point I'm trying to make is that just in any "market" to use an economic analogy, there comes a point where we reach saturation, and supply outweighs demand. It's just as if there were three butcher shops in a certain suburb, who are all keeping their heads above water but little more. Market research tells us that there are a high proportion of vegetarians in the area, and at present the demand just isn't there. Yet someone decides it would be a great idea to open another butchers shop in the middle of town. What would be the point, it just makes things even tougher for everybody in what is already a limited market.

Obviously in the free market someone goes out of business, however, in our circumstances, the League are able to regulate what happens, and anyone with half a brain could have seen that the clubs already in existence were doing things tough. However, in their infinite wisdom, the League at the time obviously gave the consequences of St.Clair's proposal absolutely zero thought and decided it would be a good idea.

What they should have done was say, we applaud your initiative, but do you realise there are already three existing clubs in your area who are all struggling to use the limited resources they have? We'd be more than happy to give you contacts for all three clubs, and we're sure they would be wrapt to hear from you.

Unfortunately that would have taken about five minutes of analysis and forward thinking.

And on Humphrey's previous point, in the past 20 years Penrith have won two senior and two U/18's flags. Not earth shattering stuff I know but hardly "spectacularly unsuccessful", and as I pointed out earlier, despite our struggles we have never forfeited a senior game in either grade.

We have appointed a very strong coaching panel in Rob Murie (who Parramatta people might know from years ago) and former Pennant Hills assistant coach Kim Beasland. I know for a fact that the club continue to work hard in developing the local junior competition which has been up and running for 6-7 years, and we were back fielding an U/18 side last season. In other words we are doing our best!

Tara's point is worth remembering, at this level it is purely volunteer driven, and people have limited time they can spend in running footy clubs and making them better. I'm encouraged by the positive news I'm hearing out of SWS, Parra and the Jets, and I look forward to seeing their improvement on the paddock.

[Pekay]

I find it strange that the Black Diamond League is more than happy to accept a stand-alone senior team(ie-Lake Macquarie, Singleton, Woy Woy)and play them in the BD 1st Division yet Sydney wont even hear of it...Woy Woy have been around for many years, a few lean ones saw them forced to drop down a grade, to a single team.Otherwise it was certain oblivion. With Lake Mac and Singleton, these are areas that needed representation, regardless of how many senior teams they had. try this-had St Clair been given the same sponsorship that UTS got in their first stand-alone team,and had the same pregress as the Bats have had,who would complain then??The AFL would pat themselves on the back, talking masterstrokes all round.

[benny_w]

St Clair

Very dissappointing.

I played for 1 year with the club and also was involved behind-the-scenes and was guttered when told about the club's demise.

It is time for the @@@@@@@@s at NSWAFL headquarters to get with the @@@@ing program in regards to stand alone teams because I honestly believe that the powers that be let this unfortunate situation happen.

It is little wonder that the Greater West hasn't got a premier league club yet when the administration let clubs like St Clair fold

Benny_w

[Pekay]

EXCUSE MY LACK OF PARAGRAPHS

Originally posted by Rafters
If St Clair are re-badged as the Jets or Goannas third grade side does that effectively make a mockery of the decision to de-register them?

Have a look at park cricket ... many guys play 15th or Z grade that could play to a higher level but enjoy playing a season with their mates.

Should be encouraging people to play footy ... not find reasons why they should not play.

Rafters,as always,is BANG on the money here. Why should anyone stop a group of people,passionate about the game we all love,from starting(or resurrecting in rare cases)a club of their own??Take for example,the old Heathcote club.Say there were 25 kids thru the junior grades down in the "Shire"(i hate that word)whose dads/uncles played together years ago, and dont wana play either 1st Div coz its too fast, and dont wana play Masters coz its too slow(If i offend anyone from Masters footy with that comment,keep this in mind-Glenn Whitney burnt me badly in a game before xmas-he's 50)but have the resources to field one team??Keeping in mind, for arguments sake,that they dont want to go to Cronulla or St George et al,they want the identity they helped build, wear the colours they spilt blood for, with the mates they've played with all their lives??Why should they be stopped?Fair enough, St Clair probably didnt push hard to make up the remaining numbers to make two teams,but why not make concessions??Jets were always staying down in 2s for two years only, to re-build the club again, and it worked.Had Parra or South-West been given the same opportunities we were,(and i am grateful the AFL let us,coz if they didnt,i wouldnt wear another strip in Sydney,and 99.99% of the boys would've given the game away,as Rosedale & Gipps are too far,and Penriff are too strong a rival to play for.ps-Rafters,most to all St Clair players will be off to Parra, as Guymer is going there next year.Having said that,i'm not sure many will follow him from what ive heard.

[DLH]

Re: Re: EXCUSE MY LACK OF PARAGRAPHS

Originally posted by Woodsy
the ironic thing in all of this is that given DLH's attitude it would appear that Penrith playing AFL would be the last place they will be.

My attitude?

It's great if the St.Clair guys have decided to go to Parramatta, a proud club who in 2006 forfeited at least half of their reserve grade games. Hopefully an influx of St.Clair players will mean they have a strong list of guys to choose from, which can only be of benefit to Sydney football. This was always the desired outcome, not whether or not they came to Penrith.

It's funny how easy it is look at an issue if it doesn't effect your own backyard with a broad brush and accuse people of self interest.

Of course the welfare of my particular club is paramount when considering an issue which directly effects it, and I would expect nothing less of anyone else on these boards.

[Coastal Boy]

What I do not understand, is that people on this forum accuse the SydAFL of not giving a rats about any other division but premier league. Assuming this to be the case (and it probably is) why is the Syd AFL suddenly sticking their nose into the affairs of a competition it does not care for. It does not make sense to me.

[tara]

I have to admit I have been suprised by the NSWAFL of late given that for once they appear to be listening to our concerns and showing a bit of understanding for once. I dont expect miracles from them but at least we may receive some support as we continue to try and reuild our club (unfortunately not monetry).

[DLH]

Re: Re: Re: Re: EXCUSE MY LACK OF PARAGRAPHS

Originally posted by Woodsy
DLH, I can think of a lot of people who could potentially blamed for the parlous state of the Penrith Football Club such as lack of NSWAFL support or poor administration but blaming St Clair for your current position is a joke.

It is always human nature to blame someone else for your own problems so I cannot really blame you and your are fully entitled to your opinion.

However the NSWAFL owe a duty to THE GAME, not vested interests such as yours and again they have demonstrated their total incapacity to govern the game of Australian Football in this state. They are an absolute disgrace and due to the lack of accountability there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.

I don't recall "blaming St.Clair for our current position". Our club has many issues, many are of our own doing, some aren't, but the existence of a senior arm of the St.Clair juniors was just one, one which was avoidable in the first place with a small level of competence and forward planning from the decision makers of the day.

So the fact that Parramatta might now be able to field two strong teams is not for the benefit of "THE GAME"? I have no particular interest in their club, so it is hardly vested interests on my behalf, yet I welcome this development wholeheartedly.

The fact that their players intend to cross to Parra means that no-one has been deprived of a game as has been suggested, and the vast, vast majority at St.Clair who have no particular affiliation with the senior arm won't shed any tears. Their club will continue to move onwards and upwards.

I am in agreement with most that the NSWAFL don't always cover themselves in glory, however, on this issue I believe that they have got it right. Obviously most others don't agree, that's fine.