Potential Comp Re-structures for 2009 and beyond

[BeeEmmAre]

Radar - this proposed restructure is meant to ensure a future for the likes of Nor-West, Penrith, Camden and Moorebank, how could it possibly be the death knell? As for wondering how we can support five divisions of 10 teams each, well we already do.

Shearer - ask Andrew Cubitt for a copy of the document, I'm sure he'll let you look at it.

Humphrey - so I talk drivel just because I have a different opinion to yours, speaking from the experience of being involved in a struggling Western club?
Check post #27 where Shearer openly admits he doesn't give a @@@@ about the lower divisions. Makes my drivel pretty accurate doesn't it?
In answer to your other question, giving clubs the chance to play against clubs of similar depth and ability where they have more chance of being competitive and maybe even winning premiership from time to time will draw players to those clubs.
Who wants to play for a club that has no prospect of finishing above sixth? For an example, the week after we beat Camden we had 52 at training - by Thursday's last training run, there was 14 and Tuesday trainings had been cancelled three weeks ago.

The Duck - would you sacrifice your club when there is no need to? Didn't think so.

Ash - We have put exactly that arrangement in place with the East Coast Eagles this year. It will take time to bear fruit, but there is no doubt it will. It won't be long and there will be more players like Daniel Spiteri making their mark on the Premier League and above after coming through the Hawkesbury junior system.

Rafters - 99/100. Here's someone who can see the whole picture - the only deduction is that Hawkesbury does still exist and we hope will continue to do so long into the future. It and Nor-West are one and the same club.

Once more, for the future of football in Western Sydney, I'm down on my knees praying for this restructure to go ahead. Garry Burkinshaw, stick to your guns.

[Rafters]

that Hawkesbury does still exist

I was actually thinking of Heathcote when I wrote that ... I accept the deduction & try to be more accurate next time

[BeeEmmAre]

I was actually thinking of Heathcote when I wrote that ... I accept the deduction & try to be more accurate next time

No worries mate. I'll give you the point back for owning up!

[Rafters]

Well put.
Rafters- Sydney Afl v EPL? The water boy in 4th division EPL gets the same amount as all the players combined in SydAFL- good point.
QUOTE=Offal;406512]

I do tax returns for very small family run businesses and also for some of the largest companies & well-known people in Australia ... whilst the figures are somewhat different in size it is amazing how similar the core issues are for each type of business.

I was merely providing examples (also take the main AFL comp where no reserve or u/18s for AFL clubs concerned) where the elite level in sport have different structures in play ... wouldn't we be a little bit myopic by not using our combined IQ of 340 & look at other sports/competitions & see what they do right (and wrong) and learn from them?

[shearer]

Rafters you raise a lot of good points but you lose me on the EPL comparison of promotion and relegation. The biggest problem i see with the EPL is that its uncompetitive, only 3 teams can realistically win it and the bottom 3 who go down often go into administration because of the inflated prices they had to pay for players when in the top grade.

I could see a team being promoted and then spending a stupid amount of money to be competitive, not performing and being dropped back down and all of a sudden they were broke.

I remember playing against those awesome Parramatta teams of the early 90's and the money spent brought the club to its knees. My argument is that i think it will happen again.

[T-Rock]

Boring!!!!

[radar oreilly]

Oh really t-rock. I thought u would have better things to do than be on r&w online. Like maybe having an end of year drink with ur teammates.

[T-Rock]

The team mates would be ok, my issue is with the coach.....he is a grade A peanut!!!


STILL BORING!!!!!

[water boy]

oreally

[radar oreilly]

I agree

[T-Rock]

Maybe the coach should follow in the footsteps of the GR8 one, T-Rock, and retire?

I thought I'd get out now before the league gets completely screwed with the proposed "restructure"!

It's all a bit......................BORING!!!!

[In the Know]

Restructure

I agree with that Radar idiot! I thought he had no idea, but it seems he has one....the restructure will be the end of a few clubs.

Clubs rely on other grades for support, for income (through canteen sales) and to perform fiunctions such as running boundary, water, messages or goal umpiring.....how does the restructure cater for this???

[BeeEmmAre]

From the restructure document.....

Clubs being split ?

A draft draw has been done with the following results:
- 0f 162 home games, on only six occasions will the senior and reserve grade sides not be at home together;
- Of the 162 away games, 105 times the seniors and reserves will be at the same venue (i.e 2 in 3)
- With the away games clubs will have at least two teams at the one venue on 136 out of 176 times

In summary, yes the clubs will be required to be split on occasions however if you look at the current situation at games, the majority of the lower grade players have left the ground by ? time of the next match.
Clubs who have Under 18?s Premier Cup, Challenge Cup or Second Division sides have been dealing with split clubs for years.
The importance is to have all club teams play at home together and as mentioned above this is achieved on all but six occasions.

[Rafters]

I remember playing against those awesome Parramatta teams of the early 90's and the money spent brought the club to its knees. My argument is that i think it will happen again.

Actually money had nothing to do with Parra's demise ... the club was & still is to my knowledge reasonably cashed up ... a thousand suspensions from 1991 GF coupled with political power plays at committee level led to a player revolt to a few other clubs (where former goannas were coaching).

[mountainsofpain]

1) Sorry to offend you Pekay, but I stand by what I posted.

There is no need to attack someone else personally because they don`t agree with your opinion.

Everyone from the lower divisions is still missing the point.

If you were that hell bent on improving the competition as you all say you are, you would be prepared to sacrifice your own club for the betterment of football in your area. By this I mean we need to merge a lot of the current clubs in the lower levels together.

Why?

Currently in the Penrith/Hawkesbury area there are two clubs - Penrith & Nor-West Jets. They generally get four senior sides on the field each week - the only reason they struggle for numbers (or have done so in the past) is because they are coming up considerably stronger clubs, which results in players continually walking away from the game. So the players are there.

You merge those two clubs for instance, and then you end up with two stronger sides who probably still won`t compete with Manly, UTS, etc and you then create a whole set of new problems (eg far more travel for training, etc). And merged clubs result in a lot of disaffected people walking away due to bitterness at the merge.

And what do you do with all the other players who suddenly don`t get a game because of the merge? Do you create new clubs? Or do you blow the Second Division out to 14, 16 or more sides which becomes even more unwieldy? (Incidentally , if you want to know how well mergers work, try and track someone down who was involved with the old Blacktown club and ask them how they think the so-called merge with Parramatta in 1995 went. ).

And why do betterment of the competition and retention of clubs have to be two mutually exclusive concepts? Answer - they don`t have to be. Frankly, clubs being forced to merge simply because they are playing in an inequitable competition is no answer whatsoever. Senior football in Sydney in particular is about growing the game - not compacting it. Why on earth sacrifice clubs when the problem is the structure of the competition?

Might I point out that this is most certainly not an argument for giving clubs easier games - it is an argument for having equitable competitions. Two completely different things. Because you can have an equitable competition while still having hard games (which is what you prefer in any case), but you can`t have an equitable competition where the difference in talent (and depth) between competing sides is so vastly different. In the latter case, the games aren`t just hard, they are ridiculously lopsided.

If you people from the lower divisions think people in Premier league don't care your wrong. We understand what we think would be of benifit to the Sydney AFL.

From what I have seen in this thread, and from personal experience, I strongly disagree with the bolded comment.

And I have no doubt that you think you know what would benefit Sydney football, but it is from the Premier Division perspective only (your argument for mergers shows this perfectly). This is totally understandable of course, as you can only comment from your own experiences.

Divisionalizing Sydney football along these lines has been mooted for a number of years. This is not the first time it has been suggested - simply the first time it has been formally proposed. Personally I don`t know if it is the way to go as I am not in favour of splitting teams. However, from the suggested document if this aspect can be minimized it is certainly worth looking at.

I have had a strong interest in Sydney footy since the early 80s. In that time there have been competition restructures, teams coming and going from competitions, teams folding and competition name changes. Far too many changes in fact. And the current situation (ie farcical First Div comp and a `slops` Second Div comp) shows that after all those changes things still haven`t been fixed. Even the Premier Div is far from perfect if you wanted to be brutally frank.

Perhaps the AFL thinks that a restructure along these lines provides the best framework and structure to cope with all future competition changes as senior footy in Sydney keeps growing. Compared to the perpetual fiddling, chopping and changing I have seen in my time taking an interest in the local game they could well be right.

The other point I wish to make is that getting the lower divisions of Sydney football right can only be healthy to the game at all levels. I saw someone mention that Alastair Richardson came from Penrith (I think). I wonder how many other Alastair Richardsons have been lost to the game (and most likely the Premier Division) because of the current lack of competitiveness in First Div. Having footy healthy at all levels benefits everyone - not just the immediate clubs concerned. Strong football at the lower levels benefits the top level and vice-versa.