Potential Comp Re-structures for 2009 and beyond

[T-Rock]

The issue doesn't seem to be the home games, but more the fact that 1/3 of the time clubs will not be playing away together.

Most sides find it a bit harder to rustle up the numbers for away games, but if you look at sides like Penrith, Norwest and Camden in particular they (occasionally) need to rely on some players "backing up" to be able to field two sides. I think you could see an increase in forfeits with the restructure.

Also, people are talking about making it more competitive, but what would be stopping players from higher divisions dropping back or moving teams to win premierships? Not everyone wants to play the highest level of footy they can (e.g premier league), most guys are actually interested in winning games of footy.

The promotion and relegation idea is good and has merit but there are dangers that clubs may stack lower grade sides to win flags instead of being an "also-ran" in a higher division. Or that clubs could tank their final games of a season to be relegated so they can be stronger in a lower division.....

[I_Heart_Kefalas]

Mountains of Pain, I completely agree with everything you have written.

To take your sentiments one step further regarding participation being the key focus, why don't we introduce Auskick for Adults throughout all of sydney?

Basically every single surburban primary school throughout Sydney will have a weekend clinic which will allow everybody 16 years and above to come down and have a kick and feel good about themselves and enjoy being a part of it all.

Afterwards we will see if we can organise for that 'Free Hugs' guy to come down once a month to also help out. There will also be free mcdonalds vouchers for the best behaved adult on the day, not necessarily the best performer, as we definitely do not want to encourage competition too much because that only creates losers, obviously that is not an option. Maybe a free sausage and can of coke for all adults to help avoid anyone feeling left out.

Then, if we are really really lucky, we might one day have an Alistair Richardson type that magically appears and he can go and play in a far away land where they take their football seriously and actually want to harvest an ultra competitive league which other states are jealous of. But we won't have to worry because EVERYBODY who wants to 'play' can play till their hearts content in Sydney and feel really good about themselves. We will all then play and live happily ever after and not have to worry about those nasty teams who demolish others because they have evolved better over the years.

Duck you are simply evil. How could you be so rude to the great Pekay.

[mountainsofpain]

Mountains of Pain, I completely agree with everything you have written.

To take your sentiments one step further regarding participation being the key focus, why don't we introduce Auskick for Adults throughout all of sydney?

Basically every single surburban primary school throughout Sydney will have a weekend clinic which will allow everybody 16 years and above to come down and have a kick and feel good about themselves and enjoy being a part of it all.

Afterwards we will see if we can organise for that 'Free Hugs' guy to come down once a month to also help out. There will also be free mcdonalds vouchers for the best behaved adult on the day, not necessarily the best performer, as we definitely do not want to encourage competition too much because that only creates losers, obviously that is not an option. Maybe a free sausage and can of coke for all adults to help avoid anyone feeling left out.

Then, if we are really really lucky, we might one day have an Alistair Richardson type that magically appears and he can go and play in a far away land where they take their football seriously and actually want to harvest an ultra competitive league which other states are jealous of. But we won't have to worry because EVERYBODY who wants to 'play' can play till their hearts content in Sydney and feel really good about themselves. We will all then play and live happily ever after and not have to worry about those nasty teams who demolish others because they have evolved better over the years.

Duck you are simply evil. How could you be so rude to the great Pekay.

Honestly, if you are going to reply to my post (which was an attempt at making serious points re the issue) with such sarcastic, ignorant tripe, then please don`t bother with this thread at all.

Cheers.

[Monty Burns2]

Honestly, if you are going to reply to my post (which was an attempt at making serious points re the issue) with such sarcastic, ignorant tripe, then please don`t bother with this thread at all.

Cheers.

WAAAHHH!!!!

I believe IHW is making some pertinent points. If he chooses to get them across is a sarcastic manner, so be it. That is a matter for him.

[mountainsofpain]

WAAAHHH!!!!

I believe IHW is making some succinct points. If he chooses to get them across is a sarcastic manner, so be it. That is a matter for him.

Well, that is a quality contribution for your first post in the thread.

Given you think succinct points are being made by I_H_K, care to expand on what they may be? (In a sarcasm-free fashion would be greatly appreciated).

[Monty Burns2]

Given you think succinct points

Changed it to pertinent, as they certainly weren't succinct!

[tara]

The promotion and relegation idea is good and has merit but there are dangers that clubs may stack lower grade sides to win flags instead of being an "also-ran" in a higher division.

It already is happening and has happened for years.

[T-Rock]

I wonder if those clubs ever asked a life member to hand in his membership just because he played a couple of kids in a different league?????? Kids who wanted a run and asked him if they could play.......

[I_Heart_Kefalas]

Clarity on my previous post.

Senior football is about COMPETITION.

Ideally, that competition is played at as high a standard as possible.

In my opinion, it seems to be a common belief that that what defines a 'high standard' is a few of the following;

a) breadth and depth of COMPETITION

b) fierceness and eveness of the COMPETITION

c) sustainability of those clubs within the COMPETITION.

Points a) & b) contradict each other somewhat, and this seems to be where the majority of the debate present on this thread is currently arising.

Point C) is again a subjective point for many, but it is also a critical component of creating this high standard.

My previous post was a tounge and cheek stab at those who in my opinion are forgetting that Senior football IS about competition!

There is no point having breadth and depth if it is purerly to facilitate PARTICIPATION. That is what is done at a junior level in an attempt to harvest quality footballers for Senior football.

Ultimately those football clubs (and people) that are willing to evolve and adapt in order to maintain their competitiveness will always flourish, whichever competition they are a part of, under any potential restructure.
Whereas those clubs who chose to dig their heels in and refuse to accept the need to change with external conditions will always struggle, again regardless of which competition they are placed or how the competition is restructured. Who moved the Cheese?

[Coastal Boy]

Some responses on this thread have have mentioned Gary Burkinshaw and his possible involvement in this idea.

Honest question. What has happened in the BDAFL (under his guidance???) that has been so good and are these concepts being suggested to used in Sydney.

In any responses to this, include some expanation to why West Newcastle wins the competition and then folds......Was there a large increase in BDAFL club fees associated with this?

The BDAFL comp for all intensive purposes is for amateur footballers ie no payments. Sydney is a different kettle of fish. IMO any restructuring should be considered very carefully.

NB: I would not know Gary if I fell over him. None of my comments are intended as blight on someone I do not know and am unsure of his involvement in the restructuring BDAFL.

[ash]

I heart

I heart,

If I was to be involved in any such a situation, from these posts, you would be the first person I would get on board

The more I read the more you would suit coming across Anzac Bridge.

Although I do believe you would like the Maccas vouchers...

[boris]

My spies tell me Ash that you got chaired off the ground on the weekend?Were the boys celebrating the fact that you might not be there next year or the fact youve won 4 games in 2 years?

[RPM]

so can anyone tell me what was the outcome from Monday night

[Hawknik]

Radar - how will the proposed new structure improve the problems you have outlined for clubs in the west? ? it gives them the chance to play footy, against teams at a level whereby people are not turned away from the game.

Shearer - I will be honest and say i couldnt give two hoots about the game below premier division ? a common perception it seems, but it is about footy across the whole of Sydney. Interesting to consider, if teams in the Premier League are that far ahead and in a strong position, then what is the concern? In saying that, I agree with giving the Premier League club?s the right to stay in that league for ?x? period as success (on and off the field) is cyclical (agree with you here Pace To Burn) and whilst Balmain & Campbelltown may be lower currently, things change over a few years. However, if the Premier League clubs were so strong, then why should they be worried? If they are so strong, then the top 2 tiers would remain as is?

Ash - As stated and agreed by you the cream of players will rise to Premier League (Craigy/Richo) and overs drop a league eg Macquarie. ? ?Overs???? Not a bad group of players to ?let go? when you are losing games in Reserve Grade Premier League like 201 to 2 and 192 to 7 and losing 12 games by 100 or more from 18 starts???? Great guys too that are real Club orientated persons that Clubs should want to have around.

It?s also not just at the top level that needs to be considered. Club?s that are trying to develop new people to the sport get nowhere when the 2nd Div comp is so lop sided (Penno, UNSW, Moorebank are far too good quality, and congrats to them, for this league but the current League structure prevents them from playing in any other division). A perfect example is Penno in 2nd Division. They are a far better side than in what div they are playing in. They would give the ressies in First Div a fair shake. Penno have openly stated that they would not mind if their side competed in that league. Hence, adding support to this restructure. Obviously it seems the contention is at the Premier League level. And RPM, to answer your question, general consensus was in the restructure everyone agreed with a restructure for Div 2, 3, 4 (as set out in format of restructure), concern was around the Div 1 section (current Premier League reserves).

Radar ? Seriously how can Sydney footy support 5 divisions of 10 teams each? Does it not now??? The players are there, and the players wanting to play are there, they just don?t want to get smashed every week in 2nd Div and hence walk away from the game (I can note 17 players this year from our club who have done just that, hey, they are not true die hard AFL supporters, but I tell you what they do provide, and that is they grow to love the game, get out to AFL matches and support the Swans and even the new Sydney team, tick the turnstiles over, and even get out to Premier League matches, in turn financing those clubs allowing them to then strengthen themselves and the Sydney league ? everything is inter-related).

Rafters ? 9 out of 10 for the BOG post mate. EPL slightly off, but well clarified in that the same problems are evident in large and small clubs/enterprises/businesses etc. I will vouch for that. Perfect example is the current Premier League clubs concerns (and valid) of not having enough ?volunteers? to cover playing at split grounds ? you have to ask the question though, ?why don?t these clubs have the ?volunteers? involved?

My 2-bob ? relegation system for lowest 3 grades for 2009 (current First Div Seniors, First Division Ressies and 2nd Div). Leave Premier League as is until 2010, whereby the current Premier League ressies is removed and a First Division is set up based on 5 criteria (as outlined in the proposal). The ultimate level should remain as Premier League for 2010 with control of this handled by the AFL (thus Clubs must focus on having a strong Club to have 2 teams at the top 2 levels) with a 3 year promotion/relegation scenario (based on 5 criteria as outlined in the proposal) and notifcation after 2nd year, thus covering cyclical changes and giving other Clubs the opportunity to continue their heritage AND develop their Club?s performance.

[Dunger]

I've heard that the restructure is a done deal.

Does anyone have any details with teams and what division they'll be playing in?