Sydney Uni + Collingwood U/18 Team

[The Student]

No but these clinics you speak of certainly wernt out at Bankstown, nor Holsworthy, nor sth Campbelltown nor Camden etc etc.

You also mention that the Uni isnt condusive to finding u17's and u18's which is true but SU is one of the more pretigious Unis in Australia and I would rank it with Melbourne Uni as probably the top two higher learning facilities in the country and as such would be a very attractive place for interstate students to study at and hence alot of the reason I suspect you are never short of players.

Whilst alleging no money changes hands which I dont care to dispute SU is in a position to offer non monetary benfits such as gym memberships, scholarships etc etc. In most work places these types of benefits would be subject to FBT and hence do have a monetary value.

I think most clubs though have a right to be concerned because we are talking about a team representing Collingwood under the guise of SU which may appear to young players as a way of attracting attention to themselves without subjecting themselves to the politics of rep football. The concern will be will every talented young kid with stars in their eyes decide to ditch their local club in favour of this new team and what damage will it do longer term to development work in local areas by local clubs?

By the way I think its a great coup and obviously alot of though and planning has gone into it to get it to the stage it is.

Yes, I appreciate that - but I don't know how SUANFC could be realistically expected to conduct junior sessions at Camden or Holsworthy, I would have thought the local clubs might be more appropriate. And I don't doubt that a lot of clubs do that - in fact, I would be surprised if East Coast, St. George etc. didn't send down senior players to help out with, say, the under 13s of the local clubs. It's part of being good football community citizens and helping to develop the game, which is something Sydney Uni takes very seriously.

I also agree with the advantages that SU does have in recruiting numbers - however, it's not just those who are first grade footballers coming to the club. For every potential senior or reserves player that falls into our laps, we have four or five guys who need to be taught how to handball which, I think, is the best aspect of our club. Watching the new players grow to love the game as much as the people who have loved it all their life is the undoubted highlight of any season recruitment wise. Again, I am sure a lot of clubs have the same experience, specifically UNSW and UTS.

As for benefits such as scholarships and gym memberships, yes, they are offered to a select few - however, that would entail no more than eight to ten university students and the dollar value is nowhere near as high as what players could get paid elsewhere. We lost a footballer last season who went on to be the B&F at his club - he was offered a contract by another club and went on to make the most of his opportunity. Good on him - he was a well liked player and nobody begrudged him moving on.

Anyway, the point is that having a team in the U18 competition has been a priority since the day the club was re-admitted into the Premier Division. Sure, it looks a little different today that what had originally been envisaged and we are grateful for that, but that doesn't detract from the outstanding work our President has done, along with the help of many others.

[tara]

I appreciate what you are saying but like Pace who had indicated three players that they have lost I know of two boys we have worked with over the last 2 years now training with you.

I guess at the end of the day it will be interesting to see how your 18's compete in 2009.

[Key Forward]

I appreciate what you are saying but like Pace who had indicated three players that they have lost I know of two boys we have worked with over the last 2 years now training with you.

I guess at the end of the day it will be interesting to see how your 18's compete in 2009.

Are you suggesting tara that it is wrong for blokes to want to play at the highest level they can?

Seems a little different to the topic of this thread.

[tara]

Are you suggesting tara that it is wrong for blokes to want to play at the highest level they can?

Seems a little different to the topic of this thread.

No im not but if that was the case then why not St George?

[burley]

The best experience these young players can get in relation to PLAYING football is to play at the highest level against men. If the SFL is placed in a 'loose' order of compettions in the Country you could assume it should probably rate as 1 of the Top 10 Leagues.

So often you see these young NSW kids who go through their entire Junior Career protected in 'development' or 'talent identified' squads and they get a fallse perception on their own abilities because they have never been challenged. In Sydney especially this is a realism because the truely talented kids are minimal - put them in Melb & they would come back to reality extremely quickly.

I acknowledge the Coaching & Environment that Collingwood is obviously attemtping to create so that they are installing professionalism & uniformity. I think that if you had 10 kids playing Senior SFL they will all overall benefit more as footballers than the 1 kid that 'may' be drafted because of this 'development' squad & playing another year in the SFL U18 Competiton again dominating with no challenge to their abilities.

Finally, if these kids are good enough to play AFL which is what this directive is evolved around, they should be able to easily hold positions in Senior SFL Clubs, & 'potentially' dominate & play key positions.

[redsox]

agree Burley..these kids are not going to benefit playing in the 18's. They would get much better experience from playing in a senior squad.


most of the Sydney kids that have been drafted have been playing seniors not 18's

it is hard for me to believe that these kids are being recruited to play 18's. Uni are not good enough to keep them in 18's and it would be holding the kids back to do so. if so, the kids would be better sticking with a club closer to home where they will benefit from the support and mates there if they don't get drafted.

In saying that if one of my kids was showing potential, i would be supporting a move to a Premier league club.

[Norris Lurker]

I tend to agree. One of the few advantages that an elite player from Sydney has in their development compared to more established football states, is that, by the time they turn 18, they have already played a couple of seasons of senior football.

[tara]

I tend to agree. One of the few advantages that an elite player from Sydney has in their development compared to more established football states, is that, by the time they turn 18, they have already played a couple of seasons of senior football.

Sorry but I disagree Norris, my cousin was playing senior football at 15 in Couuntry Vic before playing 2 seasons with the Geelong Falcons in the TAC and now playing VFL.

I dont think kids in Sydney really appreciate just how hard it is to get drafted and what recruiters are really looking for. The biggest advantage that I see in kids who do get looked at from Sydney favourably is the clubs see us as a backwater of the game and may take this into account when considering the potential upside of a player after a few years development with an AFL club.

[boris]

How (ie. who) did you get the personal details of all the kids in the talent squads (most of whom are already at other senior clubs) to send them those nice letters a month or two ago inviting them to Collingwood Academy training?

Henry poses a very good question and one that the Sydney AFL continually dodges and hides behind the desks when aksed the same thing by clubs whos kids get poached.

Just how do some club coaches get data bases for phone numbers for every under 18 from the league so they can they persuade them to there club.

Smacks of massive integrity issues, firstly who from the league gives the coaches or general managers the lists & secondly is there any ethics in poaching 16 year old kids with promises of first grade, money & Rep selection.

[tara]

How (ie. who) did you get the personal details of all the kids in the talent squads (most of whom are already at other senior clubs) to send them those nice letters a month or two ago inviting them to Collingwood Academy training?

Henry poses a very good question and one that the Sydney AFL continually dodges and hides behind the desks when aksed the same thing by clubs whos kids get poached.

Just how do some club coaches get data bases for phone numbers for every under 18 from the league so they can they persuade them to there club.

Smacks of massive integrity issues, firstly who from the league gives the coaches or general managers the lists & secondly is there any ethics in poaching 16 year old kids with promises of first grade, money & Rep selection.

This question is asked every year and you know it will never get answer to anyones satisfaction even if most of us can see clearly.

[Junior]

I think the aspect that most people overlook is that when they are out of U18s and the draft has been run, these kids should be encouraged to play senior football in the Sydney AFL. The schollarship program has been a successful innitiative in terms of exposing more NSW kids to the highest level, but of those kids (who make up only a small fraction of all NSW kids in the TPP), only a handful will end up being rookie listed by their club and a select few will actually play AFL football.
Where to from there for the rest? I've just turned 19, I didn't get drafted like I have been told I would for the last 4 years that I've been in 'the program', what do I do now?
Most kids do one of three things: either run to SA/Vic/WA/ACT to chance their arm in a better league and try to get noticed there, or crack the @@@@@s and leave football all together. A few continue to play with their Sydney Senior team.
I know from personal experience from my time in the Rams system many years ago, and from some level of involvement more recently that there is little to no information or encouragement to continue playing senior football in Sydney once they are out of the system. The AFL puts all this time, effort and money into young talent so they can hang their hat on the fact that the rams played in the Div 1 tournament last year and actually had a win against Vic Country (I think), but they fail to provide a more realistic pathway for kids to progress to senior Sydney football once the ride is over.
I know this strayed slightly from the main topic but I think that Collingwood and SUANFC have both lost sight of where the majority of talented local juniors should end up if they are not drafted... at their local clubs.

[Pekay]

Link from Collingwood section in Bigfooty.com, interesting to see it from another perspective

Magpies aim for u18 team in Sydney - Page 2 - BigFooty

[boris]

what perspective is that, the moron Collingwood supporter point of view.

[Pekay]

Yeah pretty much, surprised the spelling wasnt all that bad!
Must be a stolen computer they all use

[cartman48]

Lots of fuss created over this... Similar things were said when the Sydney 16's were in the 18's comp but at least that structure wasn't seen to favour any one club. No one can blame Sydney Uni for try to get an advantage here but the Addresses question for kids outside there area is an important one to have answered... I know all the kids from the St George Comp have there details passed on to both St George and the Sharks/Power to be contacted as under 18's, there has been much concern from local under 16's sides in a comp that is already weakened by lack of numbers and people want to take the best kids out to create another 18's side in an already good comp??? Weakening our junior competitions to get a few potential kids drafted doesn't not help Sydney footy at all, if my club has a star player we will encourage him to play for St George (and have done in the past)... People are concerned about this and rightly so... I only hope common sense prevails....