Norths down, Power up

[shearer]

Problem is Duck that many prem div clubs arnt prepared to work with lower div clubs. There are a lot of kids who sit idle at prem div 18's not gettting a game but they arnt given day clearance or even pointed in the direction of a club that will give them a game. It was always take take take and other than a few clubs I dont see it changing much in the short term.

Tara, i understand your point but at the end of the day its up to the kid if they want to go and play for another club for a day.When i was coaching saints 18's a few years ago there were times when we had to many 18's and we would openly encourage them to have a game with Southern Sharks.

Sometimes our guys went and played and other times they said no and ran water for us or did the boundary etc

Im sure the perception was that st george wasnt sending there kids down all the time, but i was never going to force a guy to play were he didnt want to.

[Hawknik]

Problem is Duck that many prem div clubs arnt prepared to work with lower div clubs.

How has the ECE/Jets alliance worked?
Has there been transfer of players from Jets advancing into the ECE sides?
Has there been transfer of players from ECE to Jets?

I assume with Jets starting the U18's up this year, the Eagles have been working hard to help make this happen, helping Jets with the how to aspects, directing kids down there and even holding joint preseason training sessions?

I imagine this would be a true indication of willingness of PL and lower Div full Club alliance (as Duck mentions yesterday 6:33pm) would work as it is operational in current today....

[Hawknik]

[B]but i was never going to force a guy to play were he didnt want to.

Totally agree with you shearer. I think what tara is saying is that more than just telling the guy to go play at soandso can be done - eg calling the lower div club coach up, passing on the kids details, getting the lower div club coach to come down and chat to the squad, even organising the lower div club to train there U18's with them if feasible (not always makes sense however to do this)

I take your point though, it is a two way street between both clubs however.

[Junior]

How has the ECE/Jets alliance worked?
Has there been transfer of players from Jets advancing into the ECE sides?
Has there been transfer of players from ECE to Jets?

I assume with Jets starting the U18's up this year, the Eagles have been working hard to help make this happen, helping Jets with the how to aspects, directing kids down there and even holding joint preseason training sessions?

I imagine this would be a true indication of willingness of PL and lower Div full Club alliance (as Duck mentions yesterday 6:33pm) would work as it is operational in current today....

Two years ago ECE would regularly send up to half a dozen players each week to NWJ to play in their senior side. These were generally players who missed out in a spot in ECE's reserve grade side. While I never got to a Jets game myself, I'm sure Pekay would agree that these guys always contributed strongly to the team and played with commitment each week. The arrival of ECE's third grade side in a way circumvented the need for this to happen, although the idea was that through the Alliance, the two clubs could offer players a pathway right from Div 4 through to Premier Div. In practice, I don't think there were any players that played for the other club in 09.

As far as the NWJ Under 18s go for 2010, ECE have offered a number of resources to the Jets to help them get their team under way. The clubs have met a number of times and no doubt Pekay and his U18 side will be welcome to join in training at ECE throughout the year, just to get a view of how a different club goes about it's training etc. In general, the relationship between the clubs is still very strong, Im sure Pekay can add his comments...

[tara]

Problem is Duck that many prem div clubs arnt prepared to work with lower div clubs. There are a lot of kids who sit idle at prem div 18's not gettting a game but they arnt given day clearance or even pointed in the direction of a club that will give them a game. It was always take take take and other than a few clubs I dont see it changing much in the short term.

Tara, i understand your point but at the end of the day its up to the kid if they want to go and play for another club for a day.When i was coaching saints 18's a few years ago there were times when we had to many 18's and we would openly encourage them to have a game with Southern Sharks.

Sometimes our guys went and played and other times they said no and ran water for us or did the boundary etc

Im sure the perception was that st george wasnt sending there kids down all the time, but i was never going to force a guy to play were he didnt want to.

Shearer Im sure you did and Im only commenting on my experience.

[Pekay]

Two years ago ECE would regularly send up to half a dozen players each week to NWJ to play in their senior side. These were generally players who missed out in a spot in ECE's reserve grade side. While I never got to a Jets game myself, I'm sure Pekay would agree that these guys always contributed strongly to the team and played with commitment each week. The arrival of ECE's third grade side in a way circumvented the need for this to happen, although the idea was that through the Alliance, the two clubs could offer players a pathway right from Div 4 through to Premier Div. In practice, I don't think there were any players that played for the other club in 09.

As far as the NWJ Under 18s go for 2010, ECE have offered a number of resources to the Jets to help them get their team under way. The clubs have met a number of times and no doubt Pekay and his U18 side will be welcome to join in training at ECE throughout the year, just to get a view of how a different club goes about it's training etc. In general, the relationship between the clubs is still very strong, Im sure Pekay can add his comments...

We had a number of players fit into our Senior team in 2008, it wasn't to boost our chances of winning any games (We only won one game for the year anyway, before the ECE boys arrived) 2009 saw their 3rds team appear, however, I wasn't going to use the same system as the 2008 coach, meaning if ECE didn't have their 3rds to cater for their overflow, I wasn't willing to have a player on a one week basis, no point. It didn't come to that so its not worth talking about. But the help in 2008 was appreciated.

There isn't too much in terms of benefits for either side besides the fact that we have shored up the North West area, and we actually cover all grades to suit any player of any potential. The benefits will be evident in coming years when we work a lot more closely. So, as Junior has said, the relationship is working, it could be a lot stronger mind you, but time will tell in that regard. As for 18s, we (NWJ) haven't really put as much time and effort into the set-up as would be necessary, the fact being, that we had two 16s teams through the Quakers Hill/Hawkesbury junior clubs, if not for one of the coaches serving another clubs agenda and bolstering their ranks, we would be in a better position.

I am in the process of re-building alot of bridges between Hawkesbury & Quakers Hill junior clubs and the Jets Seniors ( I am a life member of both clubs) so I can see alot more fruit being beared in 2011, a more realistic approach to having a Jets 18s in place, with ECE's help, for the greater good of the Nor-West Alliance, not to serve just one club.

[Pekay]

I know I should be used to it by now but I cannot believe the constant cr@p that is written on here by the holier than now lower division brigade. If half you clowns had ever ventured out of the SydneyAFL sanctuary you would understand what a laughing stock we are. If you have ever tried to recruit a quality player from interstate and had to explain to them that some of the Premier League club reserves play in a different competition you would understand. You are now talking about bringing in Maroubra and Auburn with the possibility of them not having a reserve grade side or an under 18 side. We play in a competition that has football CLUBS participating, not teams. The Premier Leaugue should be made up of Seniors, Reserves and Under 18s that all play at the same ground on the same day. With every change the SydneyAFL makes to even up the retard competitions below Premier League they are actually weakening the competition as a whole. Please boys do not get your nose out of joint. I am only saying what every other person in Premier Leaugue is thinking or saying. It is not meant to be personal.

I switched off at the sentence in bold. Bit pot kettle isn't it?

[sam]

I know I should be used to it by now but I cannot believe the constant cr@p that is written on here by the holier than now lower division brigade. If half you clowns had ever ventured out of the SydneyAFL sanctuary you would understand what a laughing stock we are. If you have ever tried to recruit a quality player from interstate and had to explain to them that some of the Premier League club reserves play in a different competition you would understand. You are now talking about bringing in Maroubra and Auburn with the possibility of them not having a reserve grade side or an under 18 side. We play in a competition that has football CLUBS participating, not teams. The Premier Leaugue should be made up of Seniors, Reserves and Under 18s that all play at the same ground on the same day. With every change the SydneyAFL makes to even up the retard competitions below Premier League they are actually weakening the competition as a whole. Please boys do not get your nose out of joint. I am only saying what every other person in Premier Leaugue is thinking or saying. It is not meant to be personal.

I think i can talk as i played most of my footy in WA.outside the WAFL and sunday football, all the team play at different gounds, your club could have A grade C,D and F. But i can see what you are saying if you look at the Premier league being the WAFL then the u18 and reserves should be in the same comp But this is Syd you dont have the players to go around and players dont care about playing prem league we come to work 1st and play a bit of footy so i think it great that you think Premier league is so good but you are still a small fish,so get over yourself.

[The Duck]

Sam, you have missed my point, Peakay you always miss everything (except Swanny). My point is regardless of the standard, the structure needs to be right. Premier league should be set up (1sts, Reserves and Under 18s) as a template for the lower divisions. My point is that the competition should be made up of clubs, not teams. I would not be modelling the structure on football in WA. The amatuer competition in Victoria should be the blueprint. Sides come up and down based on their results in the seniors, not the reserves, and the certainly do not structure the competition on the results of the clubs reserves. I still can not understand why the league would change the competition to pander to the weaker sides/clubs to make the competition more even, so everyone has fun each weak and never gets flogged.

[tara]

Duck you keep referring to the pandering of the league to the weaker clubs yet from where I stand that was not the case - with limited funds they needed to address the imbalance in the existing competition before more clubs disappeared and the league became known as the univerisity and yuppie league.

The league realised that if it was to continue the way it was there wouldnt be a lower league. The premier div clubs you speak of were partly to blame - like that statement or not its a fact.

Two clubs in particular under the excuse of not having the resources were happy to have two and three clubs respectively competing in 2nd division rather than play in divison one and cop the odd belting.

As for the league helping us - they were suportive of initiatives we have done but thats about it - except for allowing up to drop to div two initially just to survive. Other than that the ball is in our court.

As it is there were two options and the league took the one that left two teams in prem div who wouldnt be there had they taken plan b.

[OLDMATE]

I agree that the promotion/ relegation system should be based on vic ammos system. I think clubs being promoted and not teams is the way to go in all levels and a system like this would even out the comps in 5 years.
I don't think clubs should be able to field anymore than 1st and 2nds i think if clubs have enough players to have 3rd grade and 4th grade teams maybe the afl should look at introducing more clubs in those areas to cater for those blokes. I'm sure i will get shoot down but a system like this would see clubs in the lower divisions being able to have a goal to reach premier league and the clubs in premier league will have to ensure they are always competitive or be relegated. good for footy i say.

[DLH]

I still can not understand why the league would change the competition to pander to the weaker sides/clubs to make the competition more even, so everyone has fun each weak and never gets flogged.

Would you be able to understand it if the Sydney AFL was left with only a dozen senior clubs all located within 20kms of the CBD, because that's the road we were heading down before the restructure.

Do you really think that clubs would continue to be sustainable getting thumped by 30 goals every week just because they don't have the same access to playing and coaching resources?

And don't give me this "well they should pull their socks up" rubbish. It's a bit hard to pull your socks up if you don't have any.

[sam]

Sam, you have missed my point, Peakay you always miss everything (except Swanny). My point is regardless of the standard, the structure needs to be right. Premier league should be set up (1sts, Reserves and Under 18s) as a template for the lower divisions. My point is that the competition should be made up of clubs, not teams. I would not be modelling the structure on football in WA. The amatuer competition in Victoria should be the blueprint. Sides come up and down based on their results in the seniors, not the reserves, and the certainly do not structure the competition on the results of the clubs reserves. I still can not understand why the league would change the competition to pander to the weaker sides/clubs to make the competition more even, so everyone has fun each weak and never gets flogged.

You are still thinking this is a football state, i think you a right on the Vic Blueprint it works great. i would like to see zones but we are a long way from that.untill we can keep the best u18s in Syd it will be like this for a long time yet.

[Mug Punter]

I agree that the promotion/ relegation system should be based on vic ammos system. I think clubs being promoted and not teams is the way to go in all levels and a system like this would even out the comps in 5 years.
I don't think clubs should be able to field anymore than 1st and 2nds i think if clubs have enough players to have 3rd grade and 4th grade teams maybe the afl should look at introducing more clubs in those areas to cater for those blokes. I'm sure i will get shoot down but a system like this would see clubs in the lower divisions being able to have a goal to reach premier league and the clubs in premier league will have to ensure they are always competitive or be relegated. good for footy i say.

In an ideal world we would have a VAFA system. No doubt about it IMO that this is the best model. BUT we just do not have the depth in clubs to allow this unfortunately. The other option is an unbalanced comp which we had before the new innovative approach was introduced - it aint perfect but it seems to address the needs of the clubs.

Hopefully in time we can get an A,B,C and D grade comp with each team fielding two teams. At the moment I think the system serves it's purpose.

[Pekay]

Sam, you have missed my point, Peakay you always miss everything (except Swanny). My point is regardless of the standard, the structure needs to be right. Premier league should be set up (1sts, Reserves and Under 18s) as a template for the lower divisions. My point is that the competition should be made up of clubs, not teams. I would not be modelling the structure on football in WA. The amatuer competition in Victoria should be the blueprint. Sides come up and down based on their results in the seniors, not the reserves, and the certainly do not structure the competition on the results of the clubs reserves. I still can not understand why the league would change the competition to pander to the weaker sides/clubs to make the competition more even, so everyone has fun each weak and never gets flogged.

Now I get it. Such an idiot.