Pathways for sydney juniours

[Shotties]

Once they got the group together, they then announced very secretly that they were forming a Premier Cup team

Nothing says cloak and dagger like a big announcement on the front page of the club website.

Still won't stop Sydney Uni/UNSW poaching players that come from the SFL finishing school but can see the point

I keep reading this. Can you name a few players who've been poached with this slush fund of thousands of dollars and UAI boosting? From what I can gather (though what would I know?) the better half* of the players who transfer across do so because they go to Sydney Uni and, get this, want to play somewhere convenient.

Though as above I'm willing to hear all the names and stories of players who've had their UAI boosted considerably or paid large amounts as is apparently the norm.

*Note for the slow, this isn't an absolute statement, so don't bother saying "O yeh? Wat about player X?".

[Pace To Burn]

Nothing says cloak and dagger like a big announcement on the front page of the club website.


I keep reading this. Can you name a few players who've been poached with this slush fund of thousands of dollars and UAI boosting? From what I can gather (though what would I know?) the better half* of the players who transfer across do so because they go to Sydney Uni and, get this, want to play somewhere convenient.

Though as above I'm willing to hear all the names and stories of players who've had their UAI boosted considerably or paid large amounts as is apparently the norm.
*Note for the slow, this isn't an absolute statement, so don't bother saying "O yeh? Wat about player X?".

Heres three for you. Chris Kendrick, Glenn Stevens and Tom Young. All didnt want to leave us but how do you compete with what they were either A-Offered or B-Told they had to do by Collingwood

[unconfuseme]

this was the issue;

SU u/18 GF list

1 Tom GRAHAM
2 Adrian YAKIMOV
3 Todd CONSIDINE
4 Justin HAZELTON
5 Tom AITKEN
6 Dean KNIGHT
7 Lewis COWPER
8 Casey PARSONS
9 Gabriel ROBBIE
10 Nick PERRY
11 Stuart JAMIESON
12 Josh PARSONS
13 Karwin ROGERS
14 Robert EDWARDS
15 Jarrod GEDDES
16 Tim BARRETT
17 Alex GRAHAM
18 Harrison ORR
19 Michael HARTLEY
20 Andy CHEN
21 Nathan WELDON-BOWEN
22 Monty KROCHMAL
23 Stephen MICHAELS
24 Atticus SAUNDERS
25 Ben ZIESCHANG
26 Ben PRELEC
27 Nathanial ST HILL
28 JARROD WITTS

Scholarships
Under 16's and Under 17's in 2009 (they are just the ones that I am aware of - a third of the team, and leaving a big hole in other clubs' lists ... and some of this list were u/15's ).

These players were and are, all still at school ... most of them have 2 years to go, so offers of UAI points are really pie in the sky to most of them.

The reality is, all of these underage players were drawn away from their junior clubs (most of them were still juniors) with the hope of being considered for Collingwood Scholarships (the real carrot).

Collingwoods interest in creating the squad was to benefit the development of their 5 existing scholarship players .

... which all makes sense!

The irony of course is that the pathway has changed, the scholarship program is phasing out (none of the Sydney Uni boys who didn't already have a scholarship was offered one - surprise).

These kids are now either in the Swans or GWS Academy Program going forward ... where will they be best suited playing then ...?

Anyway ... under the latest proposal, all senior clubs will now start from a more even base, and will have to do the ground work with the junior areas to attract the 16 y.o.s to their club.

BUT, just because a kid plays in Campbelltown juniors (not many of them left anyway!), he should not automatically be tied to that senior club, particularly if they continually snub junior club development. Those who do a poor job will end up forfeiting u/18's games or playing with 15 players (sound familiar?).

I think there is enough "cross over" in the published list to cater for that.

As for the Uni's ... if they are doing the development work at the grass roots level, they should be entitled to the u/18 player.

So the Senior Club's "Junior Developement Officer" role will take on much more importance, and they will have to start paying a lot more than "lip service" to junior development from now on ... as it should always have been!

Once a player is over 18 ... he can please himself ... but if their senior pathway is set out from Auskick, the loyalty factor will have a bigger influence than it does today!

... of course, the rumoured influx of kids from the Riverena on boarding scholarships at Riverview from next year moves the goal posts once again

[Mug Punter]

As for the Uni's ... if they are doing the development work at the grass roots level, they should be entitled to the u/18 player.

It's interesting looking at the Unis as you really can't lump then together.

UTS are a real expat inner city club with no real interest in junior development as far as I know

Mac Uni's U18s are really a JV with Westbrook and fit very nicely into the pathway model as they traditionally have decent relationship with Penno (not sure how this will be affected when Eynaud starts trying to raid the Kookas' best players though).

UNSW just inherited the old juniors of Easts and have a clear geographical junior zone so are really no different from a district club but have a huge potential advantage in also having a Uni zone

Sydney Uni's model is well known.....

All four quite different.....

[Dunger]

It's interesting looking at the Unis as you really can't lump then together.

UTS are a real expat inner city club with no real interest in junior development as far as I know

Mac Uni's U18s are really a JV with Westbrook and fit very nicely into the pathway model as they traditionally have decent relationship with Penno (not sure how this will be affected when Eynaud starts trying to raid the Kookas' best players though).

UNSW just inherited the old juniors of Easts and have a clear geographical junior zone so are really no different from a district club but have a huge potential advantage in also having a Uni zone

Sydney Uni's model is well known.....

All four quite different.....

But the same in that Mac Uni and Sydney Uni have never had an U/18 team until recently. Which means they would have to gather at least 44 players that would normally play at their local clubs.

99.9% of U/18s are to young to attend Uni so Unis have never been interested in having an U/18 team until now.

I don't know if Mac Uni struggled with numbers but with Sydney Uni fielding several U/16s and U/17s players, and other clubs with enough two field 2 U/18 teams, is that due to the senior clubs relationship with the junior club or is it a perceived pathway? everyone before me went to such and such club, so I will to.

[Mug Punter]

But the same in that Mac Uni and Sydney Uni have never had an U/18 team until recently. Which means they would have to gather at least 44 players that would normally play at their local clubs.

99.9% of U/18s are to young to attend Uni so Unis have never been interested in having an U/18 team until now.

I don't know if Mac Uni struggled with numbers but with Sydney Uni fielding several U/16s and U/17s players, and other clubs with enough two field 2 U/18 teams, is that due to the senior clubs relationship with the junior club or is it a perceived pathway? everyone before me went to such and such club, so I will to.

Approx half of first year year Uni students should be eligible for U18 if starting straight out of school I would have thought

I known this was sneered at before but playing Uni sport is good if you are a student (making friends etc) so having a U18 option on campus is probably helpful in keeping youngsters in the game.

Re Mac Uni I guess the key is in the term "Joint Venture". Would imagine that Mac Uni brought faclities and a senior pathway (other alternative Westbrook setting up a full senior club I guess which is a big project) and some admin and coaching expertise with Westbrook the players. Guess there would be a handful of first year students who would prefer playing U18s to senior footy straight away. Hawknik may be able to confirm this....

[alwaysnextyear]

Approx half of first year year Uni students should be eligible for U18 if starting straight out of school I would have thought

I known this was sneered at before but playing Uni sport is good if you are a student (making friends etc) so having a U18 option on campus is probably helpful in keeping youngsters in the game.

Re Mac Uni I guess the key is in the term "Joint Venture". Would imagine that Mac Uni brought faclities and a senior pathway (other alternative Westbrook setting up a full senior club I guess which is a big project) and some admin and coaching expertise with Westbrook the players. Guess there would be a handful of first year students who would prefer playing U18s to senior footy straight away. Hawknik may be able to confirm this....

Mugpunter- Dont know who exactly you are but unless you have the corect information regarding Mac UNI then please refrain from tossing stuff around half baked. MaC uni under 18s came about because there were about 20 kids a year from Westbrook that Penno did not want as they were not brilliant footballers so the commitees from both clubs got together and put a PATHWAY for those players to keep them playing football. This year the new presidents of both senior clubs penno and mac uni discussed the pathway of running a team each to fit into the new AFL pathway scheme that has been adopted. They came up with the publicised announcment and will now form two teams one in each division. On doing this it now gives all the kids in the catchment a chance to continue their adult football carreers and enjoying playing football at a level that suits them but also in a competitve arena. The PAthway the AFL has put in place will take time to manage but at the end of the day this whole things is to keep kids playing and not walking away from this great game. MAC UNI's whole philospy across the entire club is anyone is welcome to come down and play football enjoy the environment put down by fantastic past committees and if there is one or two beniefits from playing with them as a club so beit. Pennant Hills and MAC UNI will work to give all players acorss all grades from any walk of life a chance to play football.The resources will then feed back into local clubs and schools as well as we need to keep building environments for kids to play for the success of all grades in the sydney leagues no matter what division you play.

So please if you do not mind MAC UNI and PENNANT HILLS AFC's will keep marching on and providing a pathway for all players to have a game, as after all isn't that what it is just a game. Sorry for the rant but someone needs to be told straight up. MAC UNI has no hidden agendas it just wants kids to play footy and succeed in the market as a respectable club that peole are proud to pull the jumper on for.

[tara]

Mugpunter- Dont know who exactly you are but unless you have the corect information regarding Mac UNI then please refrain from tossing stuff around half baked. MaC uni under 18s came about because there were about 20 kids a year from Westbrook that Penno did not want as they were not brilliant footballers so the commitees from both clubs got together and put a PATHWAY for those players to keep them playing football. This year the new presidents of both senior clubs penno and mac uni discussed the pathway of running a team each to fit into the new AFL pathway scheme that has been adopted. They came up with the publicised announcment and will now form two teams one in each division. On doing this it now gives all the kids in the catchment a chance to continue their adult football carreers and enjoying playing football at a level that suits them but also in a competitve arena. The PAthway the AFL has put in place will take time to manage but at the end of the day this whole things is to keep kids playing and not walking away from this great game. MAC UNI's whole philospy across the entire club is anyone is welcome to come down and play football enjoy the environment put down by fantastic past committees and if there is one or two beniefits from playing with them as a club so beit. Pennant Hills and MAC UNI will work to give all players acorss all grades from any walk of life a chance to play football.The resources will then feed back into local clubs and schools as well as we need to keep building environments for kids to play for the success of all grades in the sydney leagues no matter what division you play.

So please if you do not mind MAC UNI and PENNANT HILLS AFC's will keep marching on and providing a pathway for all players to have a game, as after all isn't that what it is just a game. Sorry for the rant but someone needs to be told straight up. MAC UNI has no hidden agendas it just wants kids to play footy and succeed in the market as a respectable club that peole are proud to pull the jumper on for.

Well said - In my 20 years in Sydney footy Ive always found Mac Uni to be a great bunch of blokes to play against and have a beer with after regardless of where either competing club may be on the ladder.

[Mug Punter]

Mugpunter- Dont know who exactly you are but unless you have the corect information regarding Mac UNI then please refrain from tossing stuff around half baked. MaC uni under 18s came about because there were about 20 kids a year from Westbrook that Penno did not want as they were not brilliant footballers so the commitees from both clubs got together and put a PATHWAY for those players to keep them playing football. This year the new presidents of both senior clubs penno and mac uni discussed the pathway of running a team each to fit into the new AFL pathway scheme that has been adopted. They came up with the publicised announcment and will now form two teams one in each division. On doing this it now gives all the kids in the catchment a chance to continue their adult football carreers and enjoying playing football at a level that suits them but also in a competitve arena. The PAthway the AFL has put in place will take time to manage but at the end of the day this whole things is to keep kids playing and not walking away from this great game. MAC UNI's whole philospy across the entire club is anyone is welcome to come down and play football enjoy the environment put down by fantastic past committees and if there is one or two beniefits from playing with them as a club so beit. Pennant Hills and MAC UNI will work to give all players acorss all grades from any walk of life a chance to play football.The resources will then feed back into local clubs and schools as well as we need to keep building environments for kids to play for the success of all grades in the sydney leagues no matter what division you play.

So please if you do not mind MAC UNI and PENNANT HILLS AFC's will keep marching on and providing a pathway for all players to have a game, as after all isn't that what it is just a game. Sorry for the rant but someone needs to be told straight up. MAC UNI has no hidden agendas it just wants kids to play footy and succeed in the market as a respectable club that peole are proud to pull the jumper on for.

Oh dear, someone really has their knickers in a knot for no reason...

I actually agree with everything you have said. Can't see anything in my post that was critical of Mac Uni and I challenge you to do so. I applaud them setting up their U18s and I think the set up with Westbrook was an innovative solution for both clubs and long may it continue and be successful. As a result over 18 kids now get a chance to play footy that would have otherwise been lost to the game.

Sorry if it seemed critical of Mac Uni but this was the last thing my post intended to be and at no stage did I suggest any hidden agenda.

Only comment I made that I can see being misconstrued was that Mac Uni would have few U18s who are on campus and that is a fact due to the age of first year Uni students not a criticism of Mac Uni. As I said they will pick up some students but without a genuine partnership with a junior club it would be virtually impossible to get a decent U18 team just from students.

So, please settle petal or take those paranoia tablets....

[Mug Punter]

Mugpunter- Dont know who exactly you are but unless you have the corect information regarding Mac UNI then please refrain from tossing stuff around half baked. MaC uni under 18s came about because there were about 20 kids a year from Westbrook that Penno did not want as they were not brilliant footballers so the commitees from both clubs got together and put a PATHWAY for those players to keep them playing football. This year the new presidents of both senior clubs penno and mac uni discussed the pathway of running a team each to fit into the new AFL pathway scheme that has been adopted. They came up with the publicised announcment and will now form two teams one in each division. On doing this it now gives all the kids in the catchment a chance to continue their adult football carreers and enjoying playing football at a level that suits them but also in a competitve arena. The PAthway the AFL has put in place will take time to manage but at the end of the day this whole things is to keep kids playing and not walking away from this great game. MAC UNI's whole philospy across the entire club is anyone is welcome to come down and play football enjoy the environment put down by fantastic past committees and if there is one or two beniefits from playing with them as a club so beit. Pennant Hills and MAC UNI will work to give all players acorss all grades from any walk of life a chance to play football.The resources will then feed back into local clubs and schools as well as we need to keep building environments for kids to play for the success of all grades in the sydney leagues no matter what division you play.

So please if you do not mind MAC UNI and PENNANT HILLS AFC's will keep marching on and providing a pathway for all players to have a game, as after all isn't that what it is just a game. Sorry for the rant but someone needs to be told straight up. MAC UNI has no hidden agendas it just wants kids to play footy and succeed in the market as a respectable club that peole are proud to pull the jumper on for.

If you actually read my post properly you would have noted that I actually defended Mac Uni from a post accusing them of stealing players from junior clubs.

My response was an accurate description - the JV provided a good solution for two clubs. For Mac Uni they get junior development and a player pipeline they have been missing. For Westbrook they get to give their kids a game beyond U16s. Yes they could have set up their own U18s but I think the pathway approach into an established well run local senior club is a great idea which should already be delivering results into the senior side.

[Dunger]

If you actually read my post properly you would have noted that I actually defended Mac Uni from a post accusing them of stealing players from junior clubs.

False accusations and libel. Great work. Where did anyone imply Uni's of theft? I stated that Sydney Uni and Mac uni have never previously had U/18 teams before so they needed to build a list of 44 players that normally would feed into their district senior clubs.

You also accuse other clubs - Wests, Balmain and UNSW of 'poaching' players - by paying them an extra $20 per week. How many players have been poached by Wests and Balmain and where did they poach them from?

From what you've said it's ok for the Uni's to attract players to setup teams but not Wests or Balmain.

[Dunger]

If you actually read my post properly you would have noted that I actually defended Mac Uni from a post accusing them of stealing players from junior clubs.

False accusations and libel. Great work. Where did anyone imply Uni's of theft? I stated that Sydney Uni and Mac uni have never previously had U/18 teams before so they needed to build a list of 44 players that normally would feed into their district senior clubs.

You also accuse other clubs - Wests, Balmain and UNSW of 'poaching' players - by paying them an extra $20 per week. How many players have been poached by Wests and Balmain and where did they poach them from?

From what you've said it's ok for the Uni's to sign up players to setup teams but not Wests or Balmain to sign up players to maintain their U/18 teams.

[Mug Punter]

False accusations and libel. Great work. Where did anyone imply Uni's of theft? I stated that Sydney Uni and Mac uni have never previously had U/18 teams before so they needed to build a list of 44 players that normally would feed into their district senior clubs.

You also accuse other clubs - Wests, Balmain and UNSW of 'poaching' players - by paying them an extra $20 per week. How many players have been poached by Wests and Balmain and where did they poach them from?

From what you've said it's ok for the Uni's to sign up players to setup teams but not Wests or Balmain to sign up players to maintain their U/18 teams.

Crikey, who haven't I offended

I didn't think my response to your post insinuated any offence but apparently alwaysnextyear, who is obviously very very emotionally involved with Mac Uni, saw something offensive.

Balmain and Wests are traditionally (before ECE in recent years at least) the clubs that paid their players the most, and were also short of juniors, so hence my generalisation. Maybe not totally accurate but I stand by the fact that those clubs are the ones that tend to "buy results" rather than develop their clubs the right way. Look at their recent histories if you need any evidence.

The only club I meant to criticise re the U18 set up was the Sydney Uni model, bankrolled (surprise, surprise, SPIT) by Collingwood. That has been addressed by the Pathway program. Ironically, I think Sydney Uni has come out of that process quite well. Two junior clubs solely feeding in (Newtown and Moore Park) plus 8 big private schools is a decent area, if they can get those private schools to get an AFL program a la Riverview then they will be sorted.

I trust alwaysnextyear will now flame you for your post

[The Student]

You do realise the oldest player at Moore Park Tigers is about 9 years of age? And at Newtown they have their highest level at Under 14s? The work that the club is doing with Newtown and MP is not being done with designs on picking up players, it's done with the aim of furthering the game in the local area. Whilst it's a nice thought to give SUANFC access to private school kids, I would have guessed that most of them play house sport (or GPS or whatever you want to call it) on Saturdays and are therefore pretty much unavailable anyway. It will be interesting to see how that goes. As for getting first year uni kids into the 18s team, that is virtually redundant - most kids are 18 by the time the season kicks off.

Also, on an earlier point, as far as I understand you don't need to be a student at SU in order to be eligible for an SU Sport scholarship - I think there are a couple of holders currently at other unis and private colleges.

The only club I meant to criticise re the U18 set up was the Sydney Uni model, bankrolled (surprise, surprise, SPIT) by Collingwood. That has been addressed by the Pathway program. Ironically, I think Sydney Uni has come out of that process quite well. Two junior clubs solely feeding in (Newtown and Moore Park) plus 8 big private schools is a decent area, if they can get those private schools to get an AFL program a la Riverview then they will be sorted.

I trust alwaysnextyear will now flame you for your post

[Mug Punter]

You do realise the oldest player at Moore Park Tigers is about 9 years of age? And at Newtown they have their highest level at Under 14s? The work that the club is doing with Newtown and MP is not being done with designs on picking up players, it's done with the aim of furthering the game in the local area. Whilst it's a nice thought to give SUANFC access to private school kids, I would have guessed that most of them play house sport (or GPS or whatever you want to call it) on Saturdays and are therefore pretty much unavailable anyway. It will be interesting to see how that goes. As for getting first year uni kids into the 18s team, that is virtually redundant - most kids are 18 by the time the season kicks off.

Also, on an earlier point, as far as I understand you don't need to be a student at SU in order to be eligible for an SU Sport scholarship - I think there are a couple of holders currently at other unis and private colleges.

Your points re Moore Park and Newtown are very short-sightred as they WILL be a feeder club soon if you keep their development going. Surely the goal of this pathway thingy.....

The cut-off age for U18s is Jan 1 not when the season starts so it is not redundant but it is limited.

Re the private schools it staggers me that all the Melbourne GPS schools have always played rugby but since the Swans came up in 1982 only ONE private school has added AFL to it's school sport (Riverview, for over 20 years). Absolutely ridiculous when you consider that many of the landed gentry that board are from AFL heartland areas such as the Riverina (9th generation boarder at Joeys and proud of it yadadadadada ) So, yes, a hard nut to crack but surely the incentive is there now for Sydney Uni to get in there with all their contacts and unlock this talent stream because no-one else has been able to do it. I actually wonder how hard it has been attempted before tbh but surely it is worth a good effort?