UTS dropped in strength or just not up to it?

[mountainsofpain]

I am aware of two examples of U/14's kids being recruited, although as you say, this is not really the place.

Under the circumstances you've outlined, if a kid had given us a year of service and was genuine in his commitment to play senior Premier Division football instead of a second year of 18's, then I daresay the answer would be yes.

We've already cleared kids to Premier Division clubs outside of our pathway that we've been entitled to list due to extenuating circumstances, we're not unreasonable.

That being said, we're not going to stand by and watch others actively flaunt the rules as they stand without sticking up for ourselves, otherwise we may as well open the floodgates.

I am sure certain PD clubs don't view the Penriths, Moorebanks, etc of the world as football clubs, simply as recruiting zones.

Therein lies a major part of the problem.

[Mug Punter]

I am aware of two examples of U/14's kids being recruited, although as you say, this is not really the place.

Under the circumstances you've outlined, if a kid had given us a year of service and was genuine in his commitment to play senior Premier Division football instead of a second year of 18's, then I daresay the answer would be yes.

We've already cleared kids to Premier Division clubs outside of our pathway that we've been entitled to list due to extenuating circumstances, we're not unreasonable.

That being said, we're not going to stand by and watch others actively flaunt the rules as they stand without sticking up for ourselves, otherwise we may as well open the floodgates.

OK, on one hand you won't stand in a kid's way to play at a PD club yet they are probably the only ones actively targeted. The other kids would probably be going for their own reasons and should be able to make their own choice.

In a perfect world all juniors would stay go through the pathway loyally but it is human nature for kids to want to play at the best level and also for clubs to want the best possible list. Sydney Uni cop a lot of flak here but they have developed a template which could well be followed by other clubs in terms of the coaching structure and development plans they have.

What I'd really like to see would be for up and coming clubs like Penrith and Norwest to be given active incentives and resources to develop their junior systems. Access to the best coaches, equipment grants, development camps and the like so that it is only the elite players that go to a NEAFL club. If a fraction of Israel Folau's salary was ploughed back into the grassroots then we wouldn't be having this debate.

[ShortHalfHead]

In a perfect world all juniors would stay go through the pathway loyally but it is human nature for kids to want to play at the best level and also for clubs to want the best possible list

So what is the difference between a kid playing for Penrith Premier Cup against playing for East Coast Premier Cup side? Maybe I am missing something, but isn't it in the same competition?
Penrith released listed players to PC clubs prior to this year because they understood that they wanted to play a higher level of football. Their promotion this year gave those the opportunity to stay and play local in the top tier 18's division. It's just that we don't promise players that they will play professionally if they come to us. That is just plain dishonesty.

[Mug Punter]

So what is the difference between a kid playing for Penrith Premier Cup against playing for East Coast Premier Cup side? Maybe I am missing something, but isn't it in the same competition?
Penrith released listed players to PC clubs prior to this year because they understood that they wanted to play a higher level of football. Their promotion this year gave those the opportunity to stay and play local in the top tier 18's division. It's just that we don't promise players that they will play professionally if they come to us. That is just plain dishonesty.

Well for starters if they are good enough they'll be playing senior football at a level 2 grades higher than Div2 with a chance to play at an even higher level. Plus they have access to resources from the West Coast Eagles via their link up, superior training and playing conditions and (no offence to the Penrith coaching staff) probably better coaching.

[ShortHalfHead]

Well for starters if they are good enough they'll be playing senior football at a level 2 grades higher than Div2 with a chance to play at an even higher level. Plus they have access to resources from the West Coast Eagles via their link up, superior training and playing conditions and (no offence to the Penrith coaching staff) probably better coaching.

So in your opinion, it is good for a players development to go to a powerful club and win every game by 100?
For the record, in the last couple of years we have lost to ECE kids that include a scholarship player (now quit footy) 3 Pioneers players (two quit footy, one returned to the club), two listed players released (both left ECE after one season).
I wont get into a bunfight about the "better coaching" bit. Penrith 18's are coached by three Level 2 coaches with the head coach being director of AFL at Hills Sports High and a Pioneers coach. One could argue that you got that one arse up

[DLH]

What I'd really like to see would be for up and coming clubs like Penrith and Norwest to be given active incentives and resources to develop their junior systems. Access to the best coaches, equipment grants, development camps and the like so that it is only the elite players that go to a NEAFL club. If a fraction of Israel Folau's salary was ploughed back into the grassroots then we wouldn't be having this debate.

Spot on.

One of the great difficulties for clubs on the geographical fringes is attracting quality coaching and development staff.

Hopefully the advent of the Giants will mean more qualified and experienced footy people moving to the region in the years to come, which might lead to a trickle down to local clubs (junior and senior).

[nugget]

What I'd really like to see would be for up and coming clubs like Penrith and Norwest to be given active incentives and resources to develop their junior systems. Access to the best coaches, equipment grants, development camps and the like so that it is only the elite players that go to a NEAFL club. If a fraction of Israel Folau's salary was ploughed back into the grassroots then we wouldn't be having this debate.

This is what should be happening, unfortunately it will take time but these clubs should be given some assistance in this regard. This would definitely help in attracting these U16s to the club as they move into under 18s.

My issue isn't with which club is better and which club has better resources, although that does influence an individuals decision. My main issue is that kids aren't given a choice when they are the ones paying the fees, or their parents are anyway. As it stands the clubs just make their list of 25 - 30 (I can't remember the exact number) of kids they want to come to their club within their pathway zone. Although it should be happening there is no real obligation on the clubs behalf to enter into a discussion with the player and their family. The clubs should be required to gain consent to list a player from the parents as it is their choice as to where their son plays.

I'm sure some clubs enter into more of a discussion than others but it should be required. As it stands the individual has no real power and it all lies with the clubs. As a club you could list a player and force them to play with you and the player really does not want to be there. Would you really want that player playing for you.

Just my 2 cents and I know that some clubs are more aggressive in approaching players and promising this that and the other. As with senior players and what they get paid there is normally 3 sides to the story - what the player says, what the club says and then the truth.

[Mug Punter]

So in your opinion, it is good for a players development to go to a powerful club and win every game by 100?
For the record, in the last couple of years we have lost to ECE kids that include a scholarship player (now quit footy) 3 Pioneers players (two quit footy, one returned to the club), two listed players released (both left ECE after one season).
I wont get into a bunfight about the "better coaching" bit. Penrith 18's are coached by three Level 2 coaches with the head coach being director of AFL at Hills Sports High and a Pioneers coach. One could argue that you got that one arse up

In terms of player development I think it probably depends. I just think that legislating where 16 and 17 year olds can play their footy is taking a sledgehammer to a walnut. Sure there will be isolated cases of unscruplous conduct but on the whole clubs should just worry about looking after their own back yard. The development of Penrith is a good example of that, provide a good environment that kids want to play in rather than treating them like they are your property.

There's a whole load of reasons why a kid may want to play for another club. He may have mates there or he might not like the coach at his existing club. Whatever it is, I just find the idea of treating kids like some piece of cattle that the muppets at NSWAFL HQ can control quite ridiculous....