Bankstown: Swans or GWS?

[Coastal Boy]

From memory, Bankstown were at one time under the banner of Wests juniors. But then a decision was made within the club to apply to the league to change this affiliation to St George. Junior players were not allowed to play for any senior club but had to show cause if they wanted to deviate from the affiliation path. So this Bankstown club decision would affect many players and both senior clubs. The reason for the change was probably because it was in the best interest of someone or the players of the club. I doubt the best interests of AFL in Sydney were at heart here.

Fast forward to the current predicament. Admittedly it's a much different scenario but I can't help to feel little compassion here for Bankstown.

I do hope it gets sorted though for the good of the game. Back in the early 80s there was a Georges River competition which fell apart with only Bankstown surviving. Sad really. I think the rep team used to wear St Kilda colours.

[unconfuseme]

You could type up some copy and send it into the Torch ucf, they might run with it!!!

While I'm here I thought I'd post some wisdom from our dear leaders regarding the juniors structure from next year

Changes to Sydney Junior Football for 2014 - AFL Greater Sydney Juniors - SportingPulse

Have a look at the draft 2014 competition U17. Cronulla playing Kellyvile anyone!!! There isn't a suburban comp in the country that has a travel factor like that. wtf are they thinking.

Yes, many of these things seem to have been decided by people who are just visiting Sydney WITHOUT A MAP!!!

- - - Updated - - -

From memory, Bankstown were at one time under the banner of Wests juniors. But then a decision was made within the club to apply to the league to change this affiliation to St George. Junior players were not allowed to play for any senior club but had to show cause if they wanted to deviate from the affiliation path. So this Bankstown club decision would affect many players and both senior clubs. The reason for the change was probably because it was in the best interest of someone or the players of the club. I doubt the best interests of AFL in Sydney were at heart here.

Fast forward to the current predicament. Admittedly it's a much different scenario but I can't help to feel little compassion here for Bankstown.

I do hope it gets sorted though for the good of the game. Back in the early 80s there was a Georges River competition which fell apart with only Bankstown surviving. Sad really. I think the rep team used to wear St Kilda colours.

Let's not kid ourselves, there are not that many martyrs around these days who do not act out of some element of self interest! ... Bankstown's actions have always been about self preservation, and developing the code in Bankstown.

Now if you look at the current actions of the AFL, you would have to assume that for some reason, that is not in their interest.

Not sure how accurate your "recollections" are Coastal Boy, but rather than "assume", here are some "facts".Let's consider what the AFL's decision was in 1988, after they had actually carried out some enquiries and consultation with their stakeholders - something they do not bother with anymore.

Here is an excerpt from a letter written to the AFL in 2010 by an individual who was heavily involved with the junior club in the 80's, giving them some intelligent, articulate and factual information to assist their decision making process, and warning the AFL of the likely consequences if they chose to continue with their actions to draft Bankstown into GWS ... Of course, we now know, trying to reason with them ... he may as well have been farting into the wind.

" Re: GWS boundaries

Boundaries as "assumed" by GWS appear to be based around the Association of Local Government Areas which grew-up just after the !983 federal Election.

One of the "platforms" of the Hawke era had been to stimulate the development of the newer dormitory areas around capital cities and which were generally "under funded" in the sense that they lacked the years of occupation/settlement that gave them an accumulation of facilities.

In Sydney, the original boundaries for those LGA's was the area to the west of a line drawn north/south along the Georges River to Lansdowne then along Woodville Road to Parramatta, thence along Old Windsor Road. This area was further divided into the North/West and South/West corridors. The "line" was drawn from census data available at the time and Bankstown was not included in the original division and at the time (some 25 or more years ago was not considered a "dormitory or development area.

At the same the Federal Seat of Blaxland and the State seat of Bass Hill were held by the Federal Treasurer (Paul Keating) and the NSW Premier (Neville Wran). I am not aware of any involvement of either of those parties in the subsequent changes, but I am aware that within those designated ares there were development funds available and my recollections are that the "bureaucrats" considered it politically smart that Bankstown might be able to access some of those funds.

In 1988 when the then Sydney Football league decided to disband the Georges River Junior Association and distribute the member clubs through the surrounding Senior Club's Bankstown were directed to affiliate with St. George. At the time the SFL surveyed the interests of Bankstown Sports Juniors and the emerging junior clubs in Campbelltown where it became clear Clubs simply would not travel. Further, the core of AFL in Bankstown has always been around the South and West Wards of the City and they have a strong affinity with the Hurstville and Sutherland areas in the South and not Campbelltown/Liverpool.

With the growth of Sydney in the last 2-3 decades the north/west axis for Sydney now runs along the Cumberland Highway and the old eastern, norther and southern suburbs are becoming stagnant. With the Pacific Ocean to the East, Broken Bay and Ku-ring-gai National Park in the North and Port Hacking and the Royal National Park in the South the "non" GWS areas have no dormitory areas for growth.

While I can well understand that GWS would like to have Bankstown in their feeder area given the success of that Bankstown Sports Junior AFL Club over the years, I doubt whether the Club Members, the Licenced Club or the City Council would support such a move. Indeed whenit comes to considering the role of Banlstown in the development of the Swans, it was Bankstown that first gave a Civic Reception to the Swans and Ald Ray McCormack the Mayor of bankstown at the time used that as a point of a little banter with the then Ld Mayor Of Sydney (Doug Sutherland). Further on that day/evening the Bankstown Sports Club introduced the players at a social being held in the auditorium. it was Bankstown that also organised and provided most of the staff the early fundraising/raffles at home games of the Swans and it was Bankstown that arranged the first WAGS day at Canterbury Races. The list goes-on and on, so it is a real possibility that the Bankstown Club and its various support groups would reject the GWS formal association."

So lets see how it went;

* Proper enquiry and investigation in 1988 reveals that Bankstown teams and in fact Campelltown junior teams will not travel ... who'd have thought that was a problem!?

* Bankstown is aligned to St George and Sutherland Region - A DECISION MADE BY THE AFL.

* The club flourishes in the 90's and grows until 2009, when the club has 150 players, hosts Grand Final Day at Kelso and is represented in every Grand Final, claiming 2 flags on what was then regarded by players, parents and officials from all clubs in the region as one of the most successful GF days in memory.

* The AFL decides now is a good time to move this successful club into the GWS zone to prop it up ... a decision that had been made some 4 years earlier, without consultation and for no good reason, but kept a secret.

At the same time, the Sydney South West junior clubs have all been in demise, since they were drafted into the GWS GSJ ... AS THEY WILL NOT TRAVEL. Similarly, Campelltown Seniors are starting to suffer, and are regularly unable to field reserves and u/18s teams, the later eventually being relegated and finally disbanded. They are now an AFL "Phoenix Project" ... under the guise of an out of area club name and foreign mascot, they have little or no community support, nor interest, but will no doubt get a big "tick" from the AFL after a hugely successful season, with more money spent on them than most Senior clubs can raise in a decade!

Ladder for AFL Sydney Under 18 Division One 2013 - SportingPulse

11 Macarthur Giants 17 0 17 0 2 0 1 377 2014 18.72 0.00

but I digress, back to the main game ...

* Told that Bankstown have done the AFL's due diligence on their behalf, and that they will NOT move to the West, The AFL evade the question for as long as possible, further dissenfranchising the club, as they will not discuss the issues, and have no good reason or benefit to show the club.

* Eventually, confronted at the highest level, GWS makes the decision, that they don't want Bankstown if it will damage their profile, so,keen to avoid any negativity for GWS's first season, the AFL bite their tongue, cross their fingers behind their back, look them in the eye, and tell the Bankstown Committee what they want to hear - " you will never be forced to play in a competition that is not of your choice" ... just a shame they wanted the truth.

* More lies, more AFL talk, more lies, more undermining of not only the club, but the Sydney South Junior Region, and we finish where we are now! ... No AFL Club in Bankstown, No Registered Competitive AFL Player playing out of Bankstown, no opportunity to watch a junior game of AFL in Bankstown for the first time in nearly 50 years. Also, no Sydney South (St George) region or committee, and it's Sunday football for all next season!!!

Hey, and the AFL are delighted to have their Auskick centre up and running at Kelso, often with participants showing up! ... Give them time and they could be just as successful as they have been with Liverpool Eagles (Sydney Swans' Tony Armstrong's junior club btw!) ... once they cleared out all of the recalcitrant volunteers, players, families and successful teams there (about 8 years ago now?) they have never looked back!

They have now grown into a "thriving club", one that the AFL loves to talk about as one of their successes ... oh, they have ONE COMPETITIVE TEAM by the way, even after Bankstown, their "nearest" neighbor disbanded all of their teams last season, they couldn't get enough players for an u/13 side this year

Oh well, hope it doesn't go the way of the last Auskick centre the AFL set up at Bankstown Memorial's Outer Oval a few seasons back ... not sure who's got the goal posts ... if they were not used for burning effigies, probably using them as flag poles right now!

Spooky how history can help us to predict the future, and with such accuracy ... a shame that more people do not understand or appreciate that!

[Coastal Boy]

Bankstown took 2 teams to the St George competition - one they called "Green" and the other "Gold". Around 1988 sounds about right. Green wasn't all grades but didn't survive the first season out. This move to the powerful St George comp was necessary.

My question is the affiliation at a senior level. I remembering hearing that it was one member of the board who wanted his kids to play with St George that lobbied the AFL to get the change. This would have been a lengthy process atvthe time. Previous to this if a junior player wanted to play for a senior team they were not aligned with, then a full clearance needed to be granted from the senior club. Wests had 1 junior feeder club(also playing in the St George comp) and St George had about 7. The fairness of the move could be debated. So you could describe the move as "naughty" to say the least.

The current predicament sounds dire and I don't want to trivialise it with a history lesson on a subject slightly different. But I just can't help that one word that keeps popping into my head - karma.

[The Runt]

Just a couple of things that I would like to have clarified
1. What is the main implication of being aligned GWS instead of the Swans, to my way of thinking it opens up more avenues for the better young blokes to get elite training.
2. When the Club folded what if any club was recommended as an alternative, it is my understanding that the parents of players were directed to southwest Tigers not the closer club to Kelso in Liverpool cant be a rising from the ashes when the powers that be dont even acknowlege that you exist.
3. Just how many more juniors are there in the South West area now as compared to say 2000 prior to all the AFL introducing new clubs, I know liverpool at that time had about 120 players and the others in the comp were quite strong. Mac Fields CTown Ingleburn Minto Bargo Camden etc
It must be my fault my son played at both Liverpool and Bankstown now look at them God help Holroyd he also played there. s

[King Zog]

I don't think your facts are right Coastal Boy, as far as Senior affliation goes, for at least the last 5 years Bankstown juniors may play at Wests or St George.
I also know there remains a strong ex-Bankstown influence at Wests with many past players involved.
If you believe in 'karma' then it is an impending and very nasty fate awaiting many ex-Victorian's now officiating over this complete debacle.


In answer to Runt's questions;
1. Main implication was Bankstown Players being unable to try out and participate in the Swans Academy, which existed and in a far more complete form than the still yet to be introduced GWS Academy.
It is interesting that Dave Lawson in his Sydney health check had the following to say;
SWANS ACADEMY
The Academy program has matured to be a very respected program in the metropolitan area. The interface with AFL GSJ clubs has significantly improved from its earlier, imposing stance. This is largely due to the philosophy of emphasising that Academy members should absorb themselves in their club-of-origin, in their correct age group, respecting the Academy as a value adding football supplement, not an end in itself.
Whenever a player is involved in multiple teams or programs the co-ordination of coaching assumes great importance. Up-skilling club coaches in tandem with Academy coaches will add even greater value to Sydney club football, coaching standards and subsequent player development.
There is a great balance of skills and game sense training supplemented by the monthly inter-Academy games delivers the skill acquisition objective.
The ?life skills? component is equally as impressive to those interviewed.
Respectful co-ordination of Academy training and matches with the week-to-week club obligations is a visible sign of the Swans Academy?s integration with, rather than domination of, junior club football. This integration extends to improved co-ordination of the Academy program with the GSJ?s Representative carnival program.
GIANTS ACADEMY
It appears that the principle objective of the GIANTS Academy is to identify recruits to draft for the GWS GIANTS. Altruistic objectives such as improving the standard of club football in the region and positioning Australian football as the sport of choice do not currently appear high on the agenda of the GIANTS Academy.
The risk for the GIANTS Academy is that perception becomes reality, until proven otherwise. Comments from a number of clubs referred to a ?secret society which steals our players and coaches?, regularly mention that Academy members are encouraged to gravitate to certain larger clubs, and inferred that the GIANTS Academy is only focusing on skill acquisition of the player. It is not enhancing the player?s club role as a leader, mentor or even transferring new training drills to his club.
The 2011 request by the GIANTS Academy to form their own U16 team to play in AFL Sydney?s U18 competition is often cited as evidence of their low respect for local club football and their desire to form ?super teams?.
The real risk in western Sydney is that if the better players, (and often their volunteer parents) are being distanced from their home club it will severely jeopardise that club?s sustainability.

In summary, there is a sense that the GIANTS Academy staff do not respect the quality of junior football played in western Sydney. Somehow the stand-off has to be addressed.

None of the above are my words, there is also an emphasis on Riverina area as oppossed to Greater Western Sydney. So the opportunity for Bankstown kids in GWs Academy is far less than in the Swans Academy. Lastly, one team is at the top of the table and the other one is at the bottom, who do you think the kids and Parents want to associate with?

2. The club was forced to fold and it was too late to give any recommendations, at the EGM all attendees were told where the nearest clubs were located, and I know Liverpool was mentioned as a potential new club. Further GSJ then issued one season permits to any former Bankstown player who joined a Sydney South club in 2013 with a view to forcing them back in 2014. Strangely any player joining South West Tigers did not need a permit?
I think the West gained 6 players from Bankstown, Sydney South clubs gained 20 and a couple went to Wests.
The rest left the sport.
I see they are about to repeat this successful tranistion plan on Baulkham Hills.

3. I don't have numbers information but there is a lot less clubs and teams than in 2000

[shearer]

Bankstown: Swans or GWS?

Bankstown took 2 teams to the St George competition - one they called "Green" and the other "Gold". Around 1988 sounds about right. Green wasn't all grades but didn't survive the first season out. This move to the powerful St George comp was necessary.

My question is the affiliation at a senior level. I remembering hearing that it was one member of the board who wanted his kids to play with St George that lobbied the AFL to get the change. This would have been a lengthy process atvthe time. Previous to this if a junior player wanted to play for a senior team they were not aligned with, then a full clearance needed to be granted from the senior club. Wests had 1 junior feeder club(also playing in the St George comp) and St George had about 7. The fairness of the move could be debated. So you could describe the move as "naughty" to say the least.

The current predicament sounds dire and I don't want to trivialise it with a history lesson on a subject slightly different. But I just can't help that one word that keeps popping into my head - karma.

How long ago are you talking about?

I spoke at a Bankstown juniors presentation when i coached st george 18's back in 2003/2004, to let them know what St George was like as a club and was followed by a representative from Wests straight after who did the same thing.

When i coached the players definately had choice were they went to, the Wilsens & Addisons etc went to Saints while the Linsens went to Wests.

To hear that Bankstown juniors is gone to me is woeful management from the AFL, my son did Auskick their last year and their were guys like Jason Allie running it and it was very well set up.

It was also strong on field and the kids that were from Bankstown were always well coached & were great people.

[unconfuseme]

I agree Coastal Boy - You are trivialising it now - The "greens" and the "golds" indicated where they lived - North Bankstown or South Bankstown - The South Bankstown players are a stones throw from Olds Park and the St George area, so they were obviously the ones who flourished, and that is where the former Bankstown players predominantly live today. The North Bankstown demographic is virtually all soccer and NRL due to the change in ethnicity in that area - any AFL players from that area would likely be with Auburn anyway ... just sayin.

CB, I don't care if every second senior club in Sydney closes down - that would actually be a good thing in most cases, because they are primarily run by SELF INTEREST GROUPS - but if you seriously want the code to grow, you cant afford to lose a single junior club.

FYI, under the AFL's pathways policy, Bankstown juniors feed (fed!) to Wests, St George, Moorebank and Southern Power.

The Senior club that was most pro-active in engaging Bankstown over the past 10 years was Moorebank.

Moorebank's u/18 side comprises 16 former Bankstown juniors! They will play finals this year in u/18's Div2. They will not be able to field a side in u/19's in 2 to 3 years time, because there are simply not enough kids playing u/16s in their catchment junior clubs, and any good ones will be directed to Macarthur Giants.

Ask the AFL why that is so ... they have ALL the answers.

[beameup]

Been a while but I cannot resist this one. For those of you who doubt the incompetence of GWS who are effectively the same as AFLNSWACT when it comes to this stuff have a look at Central West NSW. the Sydney boys (read ex Vic) are pushing a big barrow. So far 2 senior clubs have disappeared in 2013 and their is no juniors older than U13s.

After about 20 years of U14s and 17s a city style comp is running with lots of age groups (most have no teams) and it now on Sunday. Reason: because Auskick is successful on a Sunday. Kids do not swap from other codes, parents will not do sport 2 days on weekends when it involves a substantial drive (up to 3 hours each way) and basically it is falling apart.

Next step was if you want to trial for GWS Academy be at Liverpool at 4.30 pm twice a week. Small matter of between a 2 and 4 hour drive each way.

The locals have some idea of running a minority sport. The pointy heads have no idea.

[Coastal Boy]

I'm talking back in the late 80s/ early 90s. Admittedly it was many years ago however time does fly. The system has changed since this time but the history of a club is important and can impact on the club for many years even decades. History is important. Learn from the past and dont make the same mistakes again. I see the Balmain people keep referring to their 110 year history on this site. My point is when you want support or sympathy for a current issue it's a bit harder to get when you haven't always done things the right way in the past. Nothing more. I'm happy to be corrected on any aspect I've commented on but I've been around for a while and my memory ain't that bad. Some of the Bankstown faithful may ask a few questions and learn something about their club. Perhaps Tara or Shearer could make a comment on the past issue.

At the end of the day I think we all want AFL to thrive in Sydney and as I have said previously the loss of a team or a club is very sad. They rarely are seen again.

[unconfuseme]

You could type up some copy and send it into the Torch ucf, they might run with it!!!

While I'm here I thought I'd post some wisdom from our dear leaders regarding the juniors structure from next year

Changes to Sydney Junior Football for 2014 - AFL Greater Sydney Juniors - SportingPulse

Have a look at the draft 2014 competition U17. Cronulla playing Kellyvile anyone!!! There isn't a suburban comp in the country that has a travel factor like that. wtf are they thinking.

Forget DIV 5 Curtain raisers at AFL games that no-one will pay to attend anyway ...


This just sums it all up!

If you go to the GSJ site via floppinab's link, you will see Tom Harley's letter to the Sydney South Regional Clubs, explaining that the decimation of their region, and the move to Sunday football ...

"... addresses the concern we had for a few years of our inability to drive significant growth in the Sydney South region"

Now go to the latest news item

Cronulla rewarded for net growth - AFL Greater Sydney Juniors - SportingPulse

"The Cronulla Junior club were rewarded on Sunday with a corporate box to the Sydney Swans v St Kilda clash at the SCG for having the best "net growth" in 2013.... This is about quality and quantity, hence why Cronulla received the reward."

I kid you not sports fans!!!

Of course, this was growth was achieved due to the work done in the PAST and the success of the Sydney South Competition PRIOR to it being undermined and having Bankstown forced out ...

The best club for growth and retention in SYDNEY in 2013 ... ignore what they do ... JUST DO WHAT WE SAY!!!

YOU @@@@@@@ING MORONS!!!!


PS: if you took the time to read some of the other changes, it sees the six remaining Sydney South clubs join a "conference" of clubs including;

? Maroubra
? Eastern Suburbs
? Newtown
? Moore Park
? Glebe
? Concord
? Drummoyne
? Western Suburbs (based out of Croydon Park)

The irony being that almost ALL of those clubs would find travel to Bankstown far easier and more convenient than travel to; Heathcote, Cronulla, Miranda, Bangor and Penshurst, and Ramsgate ... likewise, all of those clubs find it more convenient going to Bankstown than their new "conference" clubs ... not to mention the opportunity to play on the best AFL specific juniors only field in Sydney at Kelso

... rather than wasting their time giving away tickets to people who really only want Swans Tickets, but say yes to be polite, these morons should invest in a road map of Sydney.

[The Student]

When was it that Bankstown moved to Kelso - 1991? I remember playing at Jensen for a year or two then heading to Kelso which was far more convenient given that I lived a few km away and could ride my pushie to games and training.

We barely had any numbers back in those days and used to get towelled most weeks - one season we merged with Croydon Park (and had to wear their jumpers which looked fetching with green shorts!) as I assumed they suffered from the same issues. We always played against the Bangors and Penshursts etc but I also recall playing Glebe and East Sydney on occasion in the five years I was at the club so there was obviously some re-zoning going on even back then.

In all that time there were a lot of dedicated and hardworking people involved (the names Alan Dixon and Frank Levine spring to mind) and this was several years before the rise to popularity of the Swans in the mid-90s. It saddens me to think that a club with a colourful past and an even brighter future is no more.

[Coastal Boy]

I remember playing Bankstown in a trial game at Kelso in 1990. I think the ground was spanking new and we were almost the first game there. There was no fence and no change rooms. The whole sporting precint surrounding the playing surface was just rocks and rubble. We found a tap somewhere about a mile away and filled up our bottles. The day was so hot we nearly died. The surface was absolutely magnificent.

Fast forward to 1995 and I remember playing Balmain(??) at Kelso. I can't remember how or why. But there was a nice fence and change rooms. Other fields were now built nearby as i recollect. The surface was quite uneven compared to the carpet it was previously. I guess it used to be a tip and the ground was still settling? Anyway, I haven't seen it since. Has it been resurfaced?

[unconfuseme]

Council pays for regular remedial work to Kelso - it has had it's issues over the years due to the ongoing subsidence.

Currently it is like a bowling green and has been for 18 months ... no cricket pitch and no other traffic helps!

The only use it gets now is from the model airplane enthusiasts and the occasional local walking the dog.

Just another embarrassment to the AFL.

[tara]

Council pays for regular remedial work to Kelso - it has had it's issues over the years due to the ongoing subsidence.

Currently it is like a bowling green and has been for 18 months ... no cricket pitch and no other traffic helps!

The only use it gets now is from the model airplane enthusiasts and the occasional local walking the dog.

Just another embarrassment to the AFL.

Actually we use it for preseason training and trials as well as an occasional wet weather facility due to Bankstown Council being slightly more progressive than Liverpool when it comes to ground closures.

[King Zog]

Bankstown Council has spent over $300,000 on the ground over the past 3 years. Installing lights capable of hosting night competition games, completely levelling and resurfacing the ground 2 years ago.
They also installed a new fence and took in all the Junior club feedback.
The AFL got all this benefit from having a Junior club occupy/lease the ground and facility for free!
Now they are spending money smoozing Councillers to keep the ground for AFL.

Doesn't that one make a lot of sense