NEAFL

[Mug Punter]

[QUOTE=ShortHalfHead;645747]

One

QUOTE]

I've spotted 5 or 6.

That's quite a difference, someone isn't telling the truth here....

[unconfuseme]

Plenty of people at the AFL are careless with the truth ... and they will do it straight to your face and deny it later too!

[Blacktown Magic]

Apologies. I'd read it as coaches. There would be a small handful. But in a club with over 60 registered players it's a very small portion.
We also have a fair few that are teachers and some even work in the city in offices. Hope that helps knowing what our day jobs are.

[The Runt]

This may sound odd and as well as the Magics recruitment is going, what exactly has this to do with the NEAFL or are the Magic heading there in the near future, that could be a tasty rumour to start

[Background]

Thanks I am smiling again at the end of the day after checking out this thread again, MP I doubt the inclusion of the Northern AFL clubs reserves into the SANFL is going to happen, the NEAFL is a good concept just needs some further model refinment. It started last year and hopefully will continue in future years or at least hopefully so and I don't think taking the quality of this football from our city is the best outcome for the game in Sydney.

We need a higher tier competition than the SFL for promising young players with a mix of more mature age for development in our city, so we can hopefully see a reasonable percentage become the next Rampe without having to go interstate. Whilst I know he did not get picked up until his steller year at the bulldogs on his return the experience and competition down south I expect provided him with development he may not have gained in the SFL. Should the NEAFL be club based as it currently is I for one think not it clearly is not attracting all of the quality players in Sydney capable of playing at this level albeit thats good for the SFL. Has it been good for the two current clubs? Perhaps SU are ok but they are different to your normal community footy club, the SHE on the other hand whilst doing ok in the NEAFL have lost all momentum in their SFL sides over recent years that is not good for anyone.

My view from a Sydney perspective is continue with the Swans and Giants reserves, then form 2 more representative (development) sides that can move between their SFL clubs (include both Prem and Div 1 players) and the NEAFL clubs, perhaps Sydney east and west or whatever who cares, the model in my view should be focused on providing development to the best level players and a quality competition all from Sydney can engage with.

Also it would be good not to bag other clubs regarless of what you think of them or how they came about, normally it is the case if we are not associated with that club we don't know a great deal about them, but on the Magic issue it seems to me they have been the beneficiary of the Eagles having to balance the NEAFL / Community SFL club as their are a number of quality ex Baulko players running around over ther now.

[Tim Freedman]

I find it somewhat amusing that many on here suggest that instead of 2 clubs in the NEAFL, that there are instead effectively 2 x SFL REP TEAMs - call them East & West.

Who does everyone think will actually run these clubs?
Who will coach and be assistant coaches?
Who will be the physios / trainers?
Who is the team manager?
Who volunteers to do the many many jobs required each week?
What ground will they play at?
Who is president and who else will sit on the committee?
Who works on sponsorships to pay for all of the above?
Who organises social events?
Who recruits players?
Who runs the BBQ, the Canteen, Sells Raffle Tickets?
How will they build a member base or supporter base when people are already aligned to clubs in Sydney?

You blokes are kidding yourselves if you think that the AFL would or should do all of the above just to keep the SFL community happy. The amount of people it takes each week, month and year to run a football club is huge. AFL employees have a job to do and running football "teams" or "clubs" isn't one of them. Running the REP team once a year is a lot different to running a club or team for a full year.

The investment by the AFL is minimal compared to what it actually takes to run these clubs and put teams out on the ground every week. Yes they provide some injection but it is a long long way short of what is required to be in the NEAFL.

Clubs who aspire to play in a higher competition and who can afford to be in the competition should be given every opportunity to do so. It's up to each of the current Sydney clubs to ultimately decide if that is where they want to play and compete. The AFL have simply provided each club with the opportunity. They don't insist that they play in it.

[The Student]

I find it somewhat amusing that many on here suggest that instead of 2 clubs in the NEAFL, that there are instead effectively 2 x SFL REP TEAMs - call them East & West.

Who does everyone think will actually run these clubs?
Who will coach and be assistant coaches?
Who will be the physios / trainers?
Who is the team manager?
Who volunteers to do the many many jobs required each week?
What ground will they play at?
Who is president and who else will sit on the committee?
Who works on sponsorships to pay for all of the above?
Who organises social events?
Who recruits players?
Who runs the BBQ, the Canteen, Sells Raffle Tickets?
How will they build a member base or supporter base when people are already aligned to clubs in Sydney?

You blokes are kidding yourselves if you think that the AFL would or should do all of the above just to keep the SFL community happy. The amount of people it takes each week, month and year to run a football club is huge. AFL employees have a job to do and running football "teams" or "clubs" isn't one of them. Running the REP team once a year is a lot different to running a club or team for a full year.

The investment by the AFL is minimal compared to what it actually takes to run these clubs and put teams out on the ground every week. Yes they provide some injection but it is a long long way short of what is required to be in the NEAFL.

Clubs who aspire to play in a higher competition and who can afford to be in the competition should be given every opportunity to do so. It's up to each of the current Sydney clubs to ultimately decide if that is where they want to play and compete. The AFL have simply provided each club with the opportunity. They don't insist that they play in it.

I dips me lid to you, Tim. Great post and couldn't be more on point. In saying that, I think you'll find it's easier to pot Hills and Uni on a message board than it is to offer a realistic alternative. Although I guess when your club is copping an alleged 300k a year from the AFL you just have to put up with it!

[King Zog]

Sorry to disagree Tim, but that is EXACTLY what the AFL should be doing.
The motivation should not be to keep the SFL happy, but it should be to foster the game in an hostile environment (being Sydney) and nurture the potential talent it gets its hands on.
You are correct about the investment made by the AFL it is not just small, it is almost invisible!
Just what is exactly is their day job? certainly isn't foster Junior clubs or ensure their disjointed school programs feed into weekend footy!
What better purpose could there be for them but to make the talent pathway easier in their own backyard? Especially in the difficult transistion from Junior to Senior footy.
It is clear they have no idea about helping Junior or Senior clubs so at least they can have a go at doing this?

I know full well how much time and effort goes into running a club, I also know it was the parents of the talented kids who tended to be the best volunteers.

I am certainly not going to have a go at the SFL based NEAFL clubs they are probably doing a great job. As was originally pointed out it is the model that is wrong, so enjoy more years of watching the best potentialled kids turn away from the game or leave to try out inter state. In the meantime the poor long suffering volunteers of the SFL and junior clubs get to watch the AFL continue to do their day jobs, whatever that is again!

[justabaraker]

You've nailed it again TimF, and, as usual, I find myself lined up with you and The Student against 'the rest'.

It's not the AFL's job to create footy teams out of the desert sands (ala Giants) and they can only build on whatever community support there is. Which for the time being is from Sydney Uni and Baulko.
Those two clubs represent second tier footy in NSW because that's all we've got.

It blows me away to read comments like King Zog's about how our best and brightest either turn away from the game or go elsewhere, and it's up to the AFL to create opportunities. SOUNDS GREAT K.Z., but the truth is that AFL is an elite career like so many other elite careers in Australia, and only the very very best are chosen for greatness - there just aren't many rookie spots going around and there are hundreds and hundreds of hungry young athletes trying to get one. The Giants aren't currently in the market so that means that all our talent either lives in the Swans catchment zone or else.....well, I don't know what....goes to Freo I suppose.

It's called "life".

As far as I know, we have two rookies at the moment on AFL lists - Lloyd Perris and Craig Moller. Yeah, it would be great to have more but, statistically, that's probably what we deserve.

The Swans and Giants are scouring the landscape looking for talent to lock into their academies and it's hard to imagine how anyone is going to slip through the net. These two clubs do what they can with their recruits but, again, many are tried but few are chosen.

The SFL is not really part of the programme (look at the goals and objectives of the GM of Sydney footy !!) and neither should it be...ours is community footy for those who have not been locked into an academy.

That's called "life" too.

[Coastal Boy]

Tim, whilst I agree with most of your response, was it not SHEagles who suggested premier div players at all clubs be permitted to "loan" themselves to SHEagles to play NEAFL during the season?
This concept brings with it an attitude which most Sydney clubs would find egotistic and rude.
I think Sydney clubs are just protective of their own backyard and who can blame them.
For anyone who has been around longer than 2 minutes, there was once a proud and highly successful club called Campbelltown who thought they were too good for the Sydney comp. So they signed up players from many Sydney teams and tried their luck in the ACTAFL. Before too long they returned somewhat broken and I can only assume they wish they never left.

Yeah, it's tough for all clubs and most hate to see other clubs get a leg up or take advantage of their previous tireless work.

So whilst NEAFL clubs receive a handout from the AFL there will always be animosity from Sydney clubs which pay the league big money in affiliation fees which volunteers work their butts off to raise.
Then a team like Blacktown pops up to the (seemingly) detriment of nearby surrounding clubs.

I do not suggest there's any basis to negative attitudes by any clubs towards others but I can sympathise with their defensiveness.

[Mug Punter]

Tim, whilst I agree with most of your response, was it not SHEagles who suggested premier div players at all clubs be permitted to "loan" themselves to SHEagles to play NEAFL during the season?
This concept brings with it an attitude which most Sydney clubs would find egotistic and rude.
I think Sydney clubs are just protective of their own backyard and who can blame them.
For anyone who has been around longer than 2 minutes, there was once a proud and highly successful club called Campbelltown who thought they were too good for the Sydney comp. So they signed up players from many Sydney teams and tried their luck in the ACTAFL. Before too long they returned somewhat broken and I can only assume they wish they never left.

Yeah, it's tough for all clubs and most hate to see other clubs get a leg up or take advantage of their previous tireless work.

So whilst NEAFL clubs receive a handout from the AFL there will always be animosity from Sydney clubs which pay the league big money in affiliation fees which volunteers work their butts off to raise.
Then a team like Blacktown pops up to the (seemingly) detriment of nearby surrounding clubs.

I do not suggest there's any basis to negative attitudes by any clubs towards others but I can sympathise with their defensiveness.

Geez Coastal Boy, I reckon you're still picking out those splinters from your arse....

It's simple really.

Sydney Uni loves the NEAFL because it elevates them to their rightful position as the premier local club in Sydney, even though they have only won one flag that counts in their entire history that dates back well before federation. It's a self righteousness that runs through their SUSU like a virus. Ask anyone outside of Sydney Uni the impact they have had on the local rugby comp - all other clubs say they have destroyed the comp, Sydney Uni say they are just jealous.

Baulko have been roped in but in reality probably wish they had never made the jump.

All the other clubs and their supporters see what the NEAFL brings to Sydney footy (Nothing!) and resent the fact that money is being diverted to these two clubs instead of being spent more equitably.

The haves think it is a great system, the have nots think it stinks...

And so the circular argument on here goes......

[Tim Freedman]

Tim, whilst I agree with most of your response, was it not SHEagles who suggested premier div players at all clubs be permitted to "loan" themselves to SHEagles to play NEAFL during the season? This concept brings with it an attitude which most Sydney clubs would find egotistic and rude.
.

Um, no it wasn't. In fact the Eagles wanted players who didn't get a game in NEAFL to be allowed to play at other Premier Division clubs which is the same system they have in QLD. By all reports it is working well enough on both sides. I have a mate who coaches one of the QAFL sides and whilst he hasn't seen too many players be dropped down to his club, he is ok with the concept in principle.

However the AFL wanted to trial the system you mention above in NSW. Some may recall my comment earlier this year when I stated clearly that this was never going to happen. Why would any player or club want to support this system to the detriment of their own teams. It would also be too detrimental to our own players if we started importing players from other clubs. Hence, why this has not happened once during the season. The only player that the Eagles have attempted to get was the Full Forward at Manly who has 2 mates playing with the Eagles in NEAFL this year. We wanted to recruit him though and not use him on loan. He was pretty quick to knock back the advance and was happy kicking bags against his opponents in the SAFL.

[unconfuseme]

You've nailed it again TimF, and, as usual, I find myself lined up with you and The Student against 'the rest'.

It's not the AFL's job to create footy teams out of the desert sands (ala Giants) and they can only build on whatever community support there is. Which for the time being is from Sydney Uni and Baulko.
Those two clubs represent second tier footy in NSW because that's all we've got.

It blows me away to read comments like King Zog's about how our best and brightest either turn away from the game or go elsewhere, and it's up to the AFL to create opportunities. SOUNDS GREAT K.Z., but the truth is that AFL is an elite career like so many other elite careers in Australia, and only the very very best are chosen for greatness - there just aren't many rookie spots going around and there are hundreds and hundreds of hungry young athletes trying to get one. The Giants aren't currently in the market so that means that all our talent either lives in the Swans catchment zone or else.....well, I don't know what....goes to Freo I suppose.

It's called "life".

As far as I know, we have two rookies at the moment on AFL lists - Lloyd Perris and Craig Moller. Yeah, it would be great to have more but, statistically, that's probably what we deserve.

The Swans and Giants are scouring the landscape looking for talent to lock into their academies and it's hard to imagine how anyone is going to slip through the net. These two clubs do what they can with their recruits but, again, many are tried but few are chosen.

The SFL is not really part of the programme (look at the goals and objectives of the GM of Sydney footy !!) and neither should it be...ours is community footy for those who have not been locked into an academy.

That's called "life" too.

Wow ... you do know there are more than 2 players from the Sydney/GWS Academy Zones on lists at present?

... you are aware that NSW has 4 All Australians from the recent u/18 Nationals? ... between the current u/16's and u/18's RAMS, we look like having more "draftable" kids coming through than ever before ... do you understand that this is all on the back of an Academy structure that is only a few years old.

Those Academies deserve a proper 2nd tier competition option as a pathway for those kids who do not get listed immediately - and the cost would be a pittance compared to what the AFL has funded the game in NSW over the past 10 years - all of that money being to introduce the 2nd Franchise.

The competition is already there, but at present it is being wasted in Sydney as the plaything of 2 clubs, who's combined egos are pretty accurately represented by about 3 posters in this forum.

It is encouraging to see someone as well informed as yourself, supporting the wrong option ... justabaraker? ... indeed!

[unconfuseme]

Thanks I am smiling again at the end of the day after checking out this thread again, MP I doubt the inclusion of the Northern AFL clubs reserves into the SANFL is going to happen, the NEAFL is a good concept just needs some further model refinment. It started last year and hopefully will continue in future years or at least hopefully so and I don't think taking the quality of this football from our city is the best outcome for the game in Sydney.

We need a higher tier competition than the SFL for promising young players with a mix of more mature age for development in our city, so we can hopefully see a reasonable percentage become the next Rampe without having to go interstate. Whilst I know he did not get picked up until his steller year at the bulldogs on his return the experience and competition down south I expect provided him with development he may not have gained in the SFL. Should the NEAFL be club based as it currently is I for one think not it clearly is not attracting all of the quality players in Sydney capable of playing at this level albeit thats good for the SFL. Has it been good for the two current clubs? Perhaps SU are ok but they are different to your normal community footy club, the SHE on the other hand whilst doing ok in the NEAFL have lost all momentum in their SFL sides over recent years that is not good for anyone.

My view from a Sydney perspective is continue with the Swans and Giants reserves, then form 2 more representative (development) sides that can move between their SFL clubs (include both Prem and Div 1 players) and the NEAFL clubs, perhaps Sydney east and west or whatever who cares, the model in my view should be focused on providing development to the best level players and a quality competition all from Sydney can engage with.

Also it would be good not to bag other clubs regarless of what you think of them or how they came about, normally it is the case if we are not associated with that club we don't know a great deal about them, but on the Magic issue it seems to me they have been the beneficiary of the Eagles having to balance the NEAFL / Community SFL club as their are a number of quality ex Baulko players running around over ther now.

... not that hard is it?

In fact, there could just as easily be 4 teams, even more representative - 3 Sydney based sides (North, South and West) plus an ACT/Riverina side.

[unconfuseme]

I find it somewhat amusing that many on here suggest that instead of 2 clubs in the NEAFL, that there are instead effectively 2 x SFL REP TEAMs - call them East & West.

Who does everyone think will actually run these clubs?
Who will coach and be assistant coaches?
Who will be the physios / trainers?
Who is the team manager?
Who volunteers to do the many many jobs required each week?
What ground will they play at?
Who is president and who else will sit on the committee?
Who works on sponsorships to pay for all of the above?
Who organises social events?
Who recruits players?
Who runs the BBQ, the Canteen, Sells Raffle Tickets?

Pretty obviously, the same people who do it now - friends and family of the players, but with the support of EVERY SAFL Club.

How will they build a member base or supporter base when people are already aligned to clubs in Sydney?

The "Zone" side would be aligned with every SAFL Club in their zone ... they would have 10 times the support they have now, because they are representative.

You blokes are kidding yourselves if you think that the AFL would or should do all of the above just to keep the SFL community happy. The amount of people it takes each week, month and year to run a football club is huge. AFL employees have a job to do and running football "teams" or "clubs" isn't one of them. Running the REP team once a year is a lot different to running a club or team for a full year.

It is actually much easier to run a team like this "year round" if they are given a clear direction and purpose, than having part time representative players, coaches, admin, etc.

The investment by the AFL is minimal compared to what it actually takes to run these clubs and put teams out on the ground every week. Yes they provide some injection but it is a long long way short of what is required to be in the NEAFL.

It would only require a small realignment of funds to enable these clubs to be funded 100% by the AFL ... if they were prepared to get independent productivity experts involved - can't see that happening though!

Clubs who aspire to play in a higher competition and who can afford to be in the competition should be given every opportunity to do so. It's up to each of the current Sydney clubs to ultimately decide if that is where they want to play and compete. The AFL have simply provided each club with the opportunity. They don't insist that they play in it.

A load of rot! ... one club does not even produce juniors! ... Self indulgence at it's best!

... of course, if everyone feels that it's not broken, there's nothing to fix!