Some history

**DLH** · 19 February 2015, 05:29 PM

Good stuff Pete, hopefully you can collect some more info from the Hawkesbury days. We're extremely fortunate to have some amazingly comprehensive records at Penrith thanks to the hard work of Mark Spooner.

**Pekay** · 20 February 2015, 06:03 AM

I'm not ashamed to say I've purged some info from Spoon's records. He's done a magnificent job. I wish there was more in-depth info available for me to find, goals, qtr-by-qtr, although there were some cricket scores rattled up both for and against Hawkesbury back in those days!

What I found interesting about that article is how accurate some of it was, albeit 25 years after print.

Teams from Wollongong and Central Coast have entered the comp, as far back as Wollongong in the SFA, NCC Hunters in 18s, and now Wollondilly (although they were around in 86-88) and Gosford.

Sydney Uni out of their depth? Can't be said now.

St Ives? Now just a memory. Much the same as Liverpool.

Wonder where we'll be in 25 years.

**tara** · 20 February 2015, 10:41 PM

Pete I was never part of Liverpool I was always bankstown but I take exception to your comment.

Our past players day last year showed that is anything but the truth. Trevor hangan from ece made the comment that he would hate to be a visiting team at rosedale with the support there on the day.

Our past players has been a slow thing but with well in excess of 200 last year well worth the effort. Not to mention the amount of ex bankstown in attendance. Unusually those normally there weren't in attendance for a change. The day finished with a jumper auction with over 100 still in attendance well into the evening. The jumpers we auctioned that were worn on the day and featured every name of players who have represented the club sin the 96 merger as well as all the premierships from sthn districts bankstown Liverpool and moorebank(sws) and life members.

Round 17 each year at rosedale is a celebration of the club and its heritage. So the memory remains very much alive and strong mate.

**Pekay** · 23 February 2015, 06:21 AM

So....let me clarify...

You take exception to my comment of 'just a memory' yet in your last sentence 'the memory remains very much alive and strong'?

Aren't you an accountant?

**justabaraker** · 23 February 2015, 06:50 PM

Pekay, Tara, DLH, Oscar even....
It's the no-footy time of year and we're busting to see the first bounce of the season - time for some serious chatter to pump ourselves up.....

This time last year, I started up a conversation about how the on-field standard has changed over twenty/thirty years.
Now I'd be interested to hear what you people think of the quality of our comp generally compared to twenty/thirty years ago - strong teams ? Solid supporter bases ? More participation ? Good marketing (lol !!), good grassroots growth ? Penetration into the general community ?

I, for one, got excited about the GWS project and I envisioned that they would rattle cages in schools and the general public to get keen young sportsmen knocking on our doors, and that we'd be swamped in the rush of kids wanting to cloud-seed new and enthusiastic footy teams - clubs even. Now, I live in the northeast so I wouldn't especially see all this if it was happening, but I don't sense that our footy community is getting any bigger or more imposing.

Do you think the comp is better for having the AFL take it over ?

Waddayarekkn ?

***Norris Lurker*** · 23 February 2015, 09:49 PM

In terms of player numbers and teams nominated, we've never been in better shape. Well over 60 open-age teams, plus two full divisions for Under 19s and womens teams; and growing every year. As far as participation is concerned, the growth has been solid and there's nothing that suggests it won't continue.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's a Div 6 and an Under 19s Div 3 comp within the next few years.

The other metrics like supporter bases and the like are harder to measure - especially on weeks when a club is split over multiple venues. There's no doubt that stretches volunteer resources, although the divisional structure's been in place for several years and by now clubs know how to make it work. And the growth in player numbers more than offsets any losses in other areas.

**tara** · 24 February 2015, 06:04 AM

Sorry Norris but have to strongly disagree. Div 6 would be a joke and just another competition for some clubs to add silverware with. From what I hear there will be a few more changes to comps that those already announced. As for growth, we have seen the AFL employees out west build a club for themselves, and Wollondilly and Gosford join the comp other than that these hasnt been a huge amount. As for Div 3 19's where are the numbers coming from? Weve already had one club drop out of div two and the numbers for 19's coming through in the west after this season arnt that promising.

The division structure was put into place for a reason but with changes to structures this year that reason is gone now that certain clubs get to pick and choose what division they compete in rather than by their results. I appreciate that some division changes are logical especially the ECE one this year. Any yes your absolutely correct about some clubs knowing how to make it work, cant wait to see last years Div 4 premiers hoisting the Div 5 trophy aloft in 2015.

**justabaraker** · 24 February 2015, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by tara

Sorry Norris but have to strongly disagree. Div 6 would be a joke and just another competition for some clubs to add silverware with. From what I hear there will be a few more changes to comps that those already announced. As for growth, we have seen the AFL employees out west build a club for themselves, and Wollondilly and Gosford join the comp other than that these hasnt been a huge amount. As for Div 3 19's where are the numbers coming from? Weve already had one club drop out of div two and the numbers for 19's coming through in the west after this season arnt that promising.

The division structure was put into place for a reason but with changes to structures this year that reason is gone now that certain clubs get to pick and choose what division they compete in rather than by their results. I appreciate that some division changes are logical especially the ECE one this year. Any yes your absolutely correct about some clubs knowing how to make it work, cant wait to see last years Div 4 premiers hoisting the Div 5 trophy aloft in 2015.

Tara, that sounds like the normal ebbs and flows that we have all seen over the years - do you see that GWS has made a mark yet ? They have impacted on Manly and I think a team from the west is also the "Giants" too.
But that doesn't bring in young kids, nor supporters or sponsors.

Norris says there are more teams than before and you say that clubs are just fudging the system to get glory.

Seems to me that the population is ageing so there are less "Australian-made" little kids coming through, and the competition is hot from other sports to snap up the good ones. So the growth would come from young families coming here from other countries.
Are getting our share ?
Girls footy seems to be on the rise.

**tara** · 24 February 2015, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by justabaraker

Tara, that sounds like the normal ebbs and flows that we have all seen over the years - do you see that GWS has made a mark yet ? They have impacted on Manly and I think a team from the west is also the "Giants" too.
But that doesn't bring in young kids, nor supporters or sponsors.

Norris says there are more teams than before and you say that clubs are just fudging the system to get glory.

Seems to me that the population is ageing so there are less "Australian-made" little kids coming through, and the competition is hot from other sports to snap up the good ones. So the growth would come from young families coming here from other countries.
Are getting our share ?
Girls footy seems to be on the rise.

Logic to me says if a club withdraws a team from competition it should be their lowest division not the one in the middle.

**Jupiter** · 24 February 2015, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by tara

Logic to me says if a club withdraws a team from competition it should be their lowest division not the one in the middle.

I agree with Tara on that strongly. Divisionalisation was originally to allow for extra grades from some teams to get a run and then neatly acted to allow new (or struggling for numbers etc) clubs to incubate at a fair level and move up and down as made sense. The objective was and should be for a club to be aiming for a seniors and ressies at consecutive div levels if at all possible - there are enough vagaries in the SAFL landscape as it is. What exception are you referring to Tara for my interest please ?

**tara** · 24 February 2015, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by Jupiter

I agree with Tara on that strongly. Divisionalisation was originally to allow for extra grades from some teams to get a run and then neatly acted to allow new (or struggling for numbers etc) clubs to incubate at a fair level and move up and down as made sense. The objective was and should be for a club to be aiming for a seniors and ressies at consecutive div levels if at all possible - there are enough vagaries in the SAFL landscape as it is. What exception are you referring to Tara for my interest please ?

Exceptions should be when a team like Norwest was decimated by the RAFF involvement a few years ago in Afgan that saw them drop from 2 teams to one and down to div2 2, Sydney Uni staying in Div 2 after a premiership due to the restructure after Balmain dropping from PD and ECE elevation from Div 2 to Div 1 after the spoon or relegation from PD to D1 depending on what way you look at it.

**saviour01** · 24 February 2015, 07:50 PM

St George got knocked back for a second u19's team. Won the div 1's, set up an academy with the promising young players in the area coming each fortnight, huge numbers at training and they didn't let us have it. If they didn't this season, there would never be a better time so I doubt they would ever get a div 3 when they wont let clubs have a second side.

**saviour01** · 24 February 2015, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by justabaraker

Seems to me that the population is ageing so there are less "Australian-made" little kids coming through, and the competition is hot from other sports to snap up the good ones. So the growth would come from young families coming here from other countries.
Are getting our share ?
Girls footy seems to be on the rise.

I teach at a school in the Auburn area. Our school PSSA AFL sides win the juniors and seniors each year undefeated by 5+ goals. However, not one of the kids plays on the weekends. We had over 100 do the 6 week after school aus kick clinic, but they still prefer league and soccer with them playing it for PSSA in summer so they can tackle rather than playing cricket or softball (much to my disappointment as the cricket coach). I would have thought the sunday leagues might help, but still no one plays it on the weekends.

I guess having 3 teachers who all play div 1 or higher in the sydney afl helps, especially when playing against schools who's teacher have never watched a game.

**tara** · 24 February 2015, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by saviour01

St George got knocked back for a second u19's team. Won the div 1's, set up an academy with the promising young players in the area coming each fortnight, huge numbers at training and they didn't let us have it. If they didn't this season, there would never be a better time so I doubt they would ever get a div 3 when they wont let clubs have a second side.

Saviour StGeogre acknowledged in a meeting with a league that whilst their numbers were good that in 2016 you would see at least one existing team under 19 in the region go by the wayside as the numbers going forward couldn't sustain it. By existing teams than meant Southern Power, Campbelltown and Mooreabank. Saints numbers in regards the juniors have been helped by the demise of Bankstown whose departure has been to the detriment of the junior comp in the region. That development was nothing to do with them. Do you realise that Saints have had an agreement with my club Moorebank that under 19's could play with us in the event of not getting a game but retain them at the same time. Surely they could work with other clubs to develop a strong junior case within the region to ensure the growth of the game.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally posted by saviour01

I teach at a school in the Auburn area. Our school PSSA AFL sides win the juniors and seniors each year undefeated by 5+ goals. However, not one of the kids plays on the weekends. We had over 100 do the 6 week after school aus kick clinic, but they still prefer league and soccer with them playing it for PSSA in summer so they can tackle rather than playing cricket or softball (much to my disappointment as the cricket coach). I would have thought the sunday leagues might help, but still no one plays it on the weekends.

I guess having 3 teachers who all play div 1 or higher in the sydney afl helps, especially when playing against schools who's teacher have never watched a game.

Tell me giving your involvement why cant you attract people from the schools you teach at to the game?

Some history

Some history

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