Is the Sydney Competition the strongest it has ever been?

[Tom Wills]

IMO the standard of the Sydney AFL Competition has increased exponentially over the last 5 years.

Having watched a number of Division 3, 4 and 5 games I can?t believe the overall depth we have today.

While there may be a valid argument over the quality of the Premier Division, particularly the bottom 3, IMO the standard of the lower Divisions is incredible high - the highest it has ever been. I have seen a couple of Division 3 games and they would be on par with the old SFA. I have even seen a few Division 4 / 5 games and thought where are the weak players - this is good footy and its Div 5!. The standard was incredibly high.
What are your thoughts?

P.S. Pekay - what are your thoughts. Having lost to Syd Uni in Div 3 how do they compare to teams of 5 to 10 years past.

[Pekay]

IMO the standard of the Sydney AFL Competition has increased exponentially over the last 5 years.

Having watched a number of Division 3, 4 and 5 games I can?t believe the overall depth we have today.

While there may be a valid argument over the quality of the Premier Division, particularly the bottom 3, IMO the standard of the lower Divisions is incredible high - the highest it has ever been. I have seen a couple of Division 3 games and they would be on par with the old SFA. I have even seen a few Division 4 / 5 games and thought where are the weak players - this is good footy and its Div 5!. The standard was incredibly high.
What are your thoughts?

P.S. Pekay - what are your thoughts. Having lost to Syd Uni in Div 3 how do they compare to teams of 5 to 10 years past.

Mate I've hung the boots up this year, busy with a newborn draft pick at home. Haven't seen any footy this year at all, but going off last year's Div 3 games, when we played the top teams like Penrith, Penno, Randwick, and the year before with Blacktown in that grade, I think it's comparable to SFA footy, reasonable pace and tough contests. Fair assessment. Div 2 in 2012 was also quite strong, I'm still sore from that season.

[justabaraker]

I've seen the bottom three in PD this year and I would say that all three are stronger than the bottom three were, a few years ago. In fact I could see our PD going the way of the AFL where any team could roll any other on a given day.
I've caught moments of lower div footy this year and it's hard to comment on the standard of the footy from the little that I've seen. But it does seem that the guys look in better physical shape than lower div teams were a few years ago.

We've been through this in other years but I doubt that the top PD teams now are as strong as the top teams were in the past. Perhaps Baulko circa 2015 with its two man mountains from the NEAFL might be comparable.
But those of us with long memories can go back to the days when top-liners would come to Sydney from other states to play for serious money and those teams were seriously good - I'm thinking of Balmain under Birdy, and Campbelltown when the Army barracks were nearby. Or Wests under Ron Thomas.

...or maybe it's just that the older I get, the better they were...........

[Coastal Boy]

I agree the overall standard is quite high, however IMO the premier division would have to be at an all time low.

The reasons for this are numerous.

Firstly, the number of PD teams(when known as the old SFL first grade) was always 8 but has recently increased. Sure, this year is only 9 but recently Balmain, Wollongong and Campbelltown made it 12 before their demise and this dilution I doubt has been re-concentrated this year.

Secondly, first division is definitely stronger....but at the expense of PD. Many players good enough for PD are happy to support their local Div1 and 2 clubs. I suggest more than in years past.

Thirdly, the club player payment budgets I can only guess are a fraction of years gone. Some of the cashed up clubs of the early 90s would spend $100k+ on annual player payments. This would attract interstate players from all over the country. Less money attracts less imports.

Fourthly, the introduction of the afl draft and list numbers being capped has influenced the local league. When the Swans reserves could attract and invite anyone to do a preseason, lots of hopefuls who eventually were cut would filter into the local competition. Ex-swans reserve graders who were not from Sydney would get local jobs and play locally. Now there are more accessible options and pathways in comps like the WAFL and VFL.

Fifthly, the NEAFL now attracts not only the best local talent but any interstate talent who move to Sydney for such things as work. I've previously read on this forum that Sydney Hills and Sydney Uni have not pillaged the local comp....but how many of their players were actively recruited from interstate and how many were coming to Sydney anyway...and thus would have filtered into the local comp?

Sixthly, good young players who miss out on being drafted have better access to the pathway competitions like the WAFL and VFL so the PD would be losing more young players than 20+ years ago.

In summary, football overall in Sydney is definitely better than pre-80s. But the introduction and rise of the swans, Giants, neafl and lower divisions combined with AFL rules on pathway competitions and drafting has lowered the standard of the PD. I am sure there are positive changes such as increased numbers which I have neglected to mention but they are not sufficient to negate the negatives. Just my opinion.

[Mug Punter]

I agree the overall standard is quite high, however IMO the premier division would have to be at an all time low.

The reasons for this are numerous.

Firstly, the number of PD teams(when known as the old SFL first grade) was always 8 but has recently increased. Sure, this year is only 9 but recently Balmain, Wollongong and Campbelltown made it 12 before their demise and this dilution I doubt has been re-concentrated this year.

Secondly, first division is definitely stronger....but at the expense of PD. Many players good enough for PD are happy to support their local Div1 and 2 clubs. I suggest more than in years past.

Thirdly, the club player payment budgets I can only guess are a fraction of years gone. Some of the cashed up clubs of the early 90s would spend $100k+ on annual player payments. This would attract interstate players from all over the country. Less money attracts less imports.

Fourthly, the introduction of the afl draft and list numbers being capped has influenced the local league. When the Swans reserves could attract and invite anyone to do a preseason, lots of hopefuls who eventually were cut would filter into the local competition. Ex-swans reserve graders who were not from Sydney would get local jobs and play locally. Now there are more accessible options and pathways in comps like the WAFL and VFL.

Fifthly, the NEAFL now attracts not only the best local talent but any interstate talent who move to Sydney for such things as work. I've previously read on this forum that Sydney Hills and Sydney Uni have not pillaged the local comp....but how many of their players were actively recruited from interstate and how many were coming to Sydney anyway...and thus would have filtered into the local comp?

Sixthly, good young players who miss out on being drafted have better access to the pathway competitions like the WAFL and VFL so the PD would be losing more young players than 20+ years ago.

In summary, football overall in Sydney is definitely better than pre-80s. But the introduction and rise of the swans, Giants, neafl and lower divisions combined with AFL rules on pathway competitions and drafting has lowered the standard of the PD. I am sure there are positive changes such as increased numbers which I have neglected to mention but they are not sufficient to negate the negatives. Just my opinion.

An excellent summation

[felix]

The Sydney football competition may be better in some areas but to have 3 Under 19 teams forfeit their games last weekend is a terrible thing to have happen.
Only one game was played in Div 2 U19s because of this. A couple of others are also struggling to field teams each week.
Where will it end?

[Mug Punter]

The Sydney football competition may be better in some areas but to have 3 Under 19 teams forfeit their games last weekend is a terrible thing to have happen.
Only one game was played in Div 2 U19s because of this. A couple of others are also struggling to field teams each week.
Where will it end?

That is a damning statistic - in the 80s and 90s all SFA Teams had u20s and along with the SFL u19s.

Not sure what the answer is......

[tara]

MP your right it is a damming statistic. The league continues to make decisions based upon Victorian opinions on the best way forward in regards to junior development. Until they put someone in charge (in particular Western Sydney) who understands the landscape and makes decisions based on their understanding of the region and not one of which is self serving we will continue to see a decline in junior footballers progressing through to senior football.

[Coastal Boy]

Speaking of failing under age competitions, the entire u/18s in the BDAFL went pear shaped a few years ago. That's right, the whole u/18s competition folded and is gone. Also, the Central Coast junior competition moved to Sunday's to resurrect falling numbers. Whilst improvements in AFL in NSW are evident it ain't all roses.

[unconfuseme]

Speaking of failing under age competitions, the entire u/18s in the BDAFL went pear shaped a few years ago. That's right, the whole u/18s competition folded and is gone. Also, the Central Coast junior competition moved to Sunday's to resurrect falling numbers. Whilst improvements in AFL in NSW are evident it ain't all roses.

The whole AFL Sydney Junior comp was moved to Sunday ... a clear concession that they do not know how to get kids to play AFL in preference to soccer ... and it has not made any difference - massive failure.

Tara hit the nail on the head - not an original notion between the lot of them, they just do what they do in Victoria, which doesn't work up here, and then go out of their way to disenfranchise their only assets, the volunteers WHO DO KNOW!

[Pekay]

The difference between Sydney and melbourne for kids sport is simple - choice.

My old man played for Newtown Jets in the 50s and 60s, dyed in the wool rugby league man. When the Jets lost the GF in 82 (?) and were kicked out the following year, he gave up on RL completely, and took my older brother down to Ashley Brown Oval to play for Seven Hills AFC. 4 more boys followed. Because he had a choice of sports to pick!

[saviour01]

And St George weren't allowed to have a second 19s side...

I honestly don't see ECE being beaten this year (yes I know Manly got them in round 1).

[tara]

And St George weren't allowed to have a second 19s side...

I honestly don't see ECE being beaten this year (yes I know Manly got them in round 1).

Whats your point?

St George openly acknowledged in their meeting with the league when they presented their case to the region would not support at least one or Moorebank, Campbelltown or Southern Powers under 19's in 2016. The league didnt support it because the growth was not sustainable and they wouldnt allow it at the expense of one or more of the existing clubs under 19's programs. Round one saw the Saints use under 17's to get the numbers due to factors that affected availability. Given that is a fact how were they going to field a team in round one that wouldnt have impacted upon results in their PD team?

We fight hard every week to get a team on the paddock due to the numbers in the region. Going to Sundays didnt help and neither the move to under 19's that saw junior clubs in a struggle year forced to drop out of 17's the following year. What should be happening is a public strategic plan that engages all clubs in Sydney that utilises their combined experience to help develop the game and keep kids engaged.

I dont hide behind what appears to be an alias here and keep my identity a secret. Anyone with half a brain knows that Tara is my eldest daughters name and that I am the President of Moorebank. Anyone that knows me knows that I want to see growth in our game and am prepared to work with other clubs to ensure it. St George were like a lot of clubs who did the usual interaction with juniors until we came along and got really engaged. To their credit the academy was born because they realised that no amount of money builds a sustainable future for long term success. What does is a continuous pathway of juniors who identify with a senior club who has shown through their actions they are committed to their development.

Any of the other President in the region know my stance on the game. For myself I would love to see a thriving junior competition throughout Sydney that allowed for multiple under 19's team. I openly communicate to other clubs about my thoughts and when I respond to the governing powers about issues that affect all of us.

How about rather than take pot shots or make snide remarks suggest something that benefits they overall game moving forward.

[Pmcc2911]

I think we possibly have a East/North vs West divide. With respect to juniors, a lot of kids in the East/North play school sport on a Saturday, so if juniors in the East was played on Saturday the numbers would be decimated.
Likewise in the West where junior league is played on Sunday's the battle for numbers is tough, if junior AFL was played on Saturday the battle for numbers may be easier.
I know those comments are gross generalisations but I believe the sentiment to,be sound.
The change from u/18's to u/19's has seen a big drop off in numbers, simply because of timing.
Kids who are turning 18, are typically in yr 12 (HSC time, pressure to study etc)
Having been involved with u/17 team for the last couple of years I have seen a number of good players just stop playing the year after they finish u/17's. The guns and the serious players still play but the mid level guys stop.
Hopefully they take it up again when they finish school.

[cartman48]

Whats your point?

St George openly acknowledged in their meeting with the league when they presented their case to the region would not support at least one or Moorebank, Campbelltown or Southern Powers under 19's in 2016. The league didnt support it because the growth was not sustainable and they wouldnt allow it at the expense of one or more of the existing clubs under 19's programs. Round one saw the Saints use under 17's to get the numbers due to factors that affected availability. Given that is a fact how were they going to field a team in round one that wouldnt have impacted upon results in their PD team?

We fight hard every week to get a team on the paddock due to the numbers in the region. Going to Sundays didnt help and neither the move to under 19's that saw junior clubs in a struggle year forced to drop out of 17's the following year. What should be happening is a public strategic plan that engages all clubs in Sydney that utilises their combined experience to help develop the game and keep kids engaged.

I dont hide behind what appears to be an alias here and keep my identity a secret. Anyone with half a brain knows that Tara is my eldest daughters name and that I am the President of Moorebank. Anyone that knows me knows that I want to see growth in our game and am prepared to work with other clubs to ensure it. St George were like a lot of clubs who did the usual interaction with juniors until we came along and got really engaged. To their credit the academy was born because they realised that no amount of money builds a sustainable future for long term success. What does is a continuous pathway of juniors who identify with a senior club who has shown through their actions they are committed to their development.

Any of the other President in the region know my stance on the game. For myself I would love to see a thriving junior competition throughout Sydney that allowed for multiple under 19's team. I openly communicate to other clubs about my thoughts and when I respond to the governing powers about issues that affect all of us.

How about rather than take pot shots or make snide remarks suggest something that benefits they overall game moving forward.

Amen Tara