GWS and it's impact on your club - Please Answer

[Pekay]

Who came first though, Auburn or Penrith? Honest question, I wouldn't have a clue.

[mountainsofpain]

Who came first though, Auburn or Penrith? Honest question, I wouldn't have a clue.

It's not a matter of "who came first?" though PK. (For the record it was Auburn).

It's that if you want to maximise your support, you engage with all the clubs in your area, not just one. It's in the Giants' own interests to do so.

Apart from Auburn, there are also ladies' sides at Wollondilly, Moorebank, Campbelltown, Penrith and Blacktown in the GWS area. On the surface at least, they seem to be ignorant of this.

I recall when Auburn played in the womens' preliminary final last year, their Facebook page wished the Auburn side all the best. It didn't occur to them to mention they were playing another side in the GWS area.

Then when Penrith won and made the Grand Final, no mention of it on their Facebook page.

If they want Auburn to have the Giants name, fine, but they should be able to find a way to honour the arrangement without completely ignoring the other clubs. It just gives the perception that they are playing favourites.

[mountainsofpain]

I'd be really interested to see if GWS had any dealings trying to help Campbelltown when they nearly went under last year....

You'd have thought that if the Giants wanted to align with a PD club, they would have done so with the only one in their own area (which Campbelltown was at the time) and not a club on the northern beaches.

[Pekay]

It's not a matter of "who came first?" though PK. (For the record it was Auburn).

It's that if you want to maximise your support, you engage with all the clubs in your area, not just one. It's in the Giants' own interests to do so.

Apart from Auburn, there are also ladies' sides at Wollondilly, Moorebank, Campbelltown, Penrith and Blacktown in the GWS area. On the surface at least, they seem to be ignorant of this.

I recall when Auburn played in the womens' preliminary final last year, their Facebook page wished the Auburn side all the best. It didn't occur to them to mention they were playing another side in the GWS area.

Then when Penrith won and made the Grand Final, no mention of it on their Facebook page.

If they want Auburn to have the Giants name, fine, but they should be able to find a way to honour the arrangement without completely ignoring the other clubs. It just gives the perception that they are playing favourites.

I actually had a lengthy discussion with Greg C about this on Saturday and completely agree with you and him.

[unconfuseme]

Let's not fool ourselves here.

GWS, (like The Suns) was simply developed as quickly as possible, with one purpose and priority ... winning games, becoming a credible football team, and growing revenue through TV rights contracts - nothing more, and certainly not about code development in those AFL backwaters.

Every resource that the AFL has poured into GWS since the planning stages 10 years ago has been about that.

The AFL's GWS mandate has never had anything to do with "developing the Code in Greater Western Sydney" ... if it had been, they would have been concentrating resources and funds into junior development via the Academy System IN WESTERN SYDNEY 10 years ago, and we would have a wave of young players from Penrith, Camden, Blacktown, etc., starring for the RAMS and being rookie listed right now. Instead their priorities were personally to ensure that they had a paying position in the changing landscape going forward, and secondly to covertly scheme to claim all of the traditional NSW/ACT AFL nursery's as GWS Zones (even Bankstown!?), so they wouldn't need to do any work "locally" to develop anyone ... if it happens that they actually list a kid from, Greater Western Sydney any time soon, it will merely be serendipitous.

Their president's disinterest in the outcomes for the Bankstown juniors was breath taking - they cost themselves a generation of support in that area, and didn't bat an eyelid.

No, GWS has nothing to do with developing AFL in the Greater Western Sydney region, THAT is the job of the AFL ... or is it? ... read from the top ^

[Coastal Boy]

Who came first though, Auburn or Penrith? Honest question, I wouldn't have a clue.

This question is pertinent.
There has been a Women's SydneyAFL competition for donkeys ages.
But it was only on the back of this auburn Multicultural team that made everyone both within and outside AFL sit up and have a look.
Women's participation in AFL has sky-rocketed in recent years.
The BDAFL had no women's comp 2 years ago and now has 10 teams.
IMO those Auburn girls have done more for women's AFL than anyone else in the whole of Australia.

[CKunde]

This question is pertinent.
There has been a Women's SydneyAFL competition for donkeys ages.
But it was only on the back of this auburn Multicultural team that made everyone both within and outside AFL sit up and have a look.
Women's participation in AFL has sky-rocketed in recent years.
The BDAFL had no women's comp 2 years ago and now has 10 teams.
IMO those Auburn girls have done more for women's AFL than anyone else in the whole of Australia.

I'll be passing your comment on to the ladies, and I expect they will be very thankful!




As a previous post has said, Auburn women's side was established before Penrith's. Bringing Wollondilly, Campbelltown and Blacktown into the discussion couldn't possibly be any more anachronistic in terms of women's football.

The notion that GWS only pumps up Auburn women's football is totally wrong. Let's also not forget, Manly women's are also 'Giants', so it's not limited to Auburn women, and they had multiple social media/website stuff last year. On a separate note, GWS pumped up last year, and the year before, that South London Giants made the UKAFL GF. My understanding is GWS social media simply promotes the teams that have taken on the Giants name - regardless of their location.

I'm interested in what clubs actually want GWS to do for them? Should we have Penrith Giants, Wollondilly Giants, Campbelltown Giants, etc? Should they be pumping up teams that have different/opposing mascots? I note that Penrith Youth Girls got a bit of press when they were established and the junior club shifted from Swans to Giants mascots.

I really don't see GWS' non-mention of the Ramettes making the Div 2 GF last year as noteworthy. This isn't due to any Auburn bias I have, I genuinely think it's a non-issue.

[Mug Punter]

I'll be passing your comment on to the ladies, and I expect they will be very thankful!




As a previous post has said, Auburn women's side was established before Penrith's. Bringing Wollondilly, Campbelltown and Blacktown into the discussion couldn't possibly be any more anachronistic in terms of women's football.

The notion that GWS only pumps up Auburn women's football is totally wrong. Let's also not forget, Manly women's are also 'Giants', so it's not limited to Auburn women, and they had multiple social media/website stuff last year. On a separate note, GWS pumped up last year, and the year before, that South London Giants made the UKAFL GF. My understanding is GWS social media simply promotes the teams that have taken on the Giants name - regardless of their location.

I'm interested in what clubs actually want GWS to do for them? Should we have Penrith Giants, Wollondilly Giants, Campbelltown Giants, etc? Should they be pumping up teams that have different/opposing mascots? I note that Penrith Youth Girls got a bit of press when they were established and the junior club shifted from Swans to Giants mascots.

I really don't see GWS' non-mention of the Ramettes making the Div 2 GF last year as noteworthy. This isn't due to any Auburn bias I have, I genuinely think it's a non-issue.

There are interests in the game outside your little Auburn bubble you know.

Quite simply they should be supporting teams in the GWS area and not Manly, what a ridiculous choice. And if they are pumping anything more than a pack of crisps into a team in London that is equally crazy.

And they should be investing in their Western Sydney academy and investing in local junior and senior teams, all teams not just teams like yours that have an angle, with resources. Not necessarily money though that would help at the pointy end. That money that went to Manly should have been multiplied by 2 and gone to Campbelltown.

Their treatment of Bankstown Juniors says it all really.

Thanks guys for all your responses, it is clear to all of us that GWS really do bugger all for Sydney football

[CKunde]

There are interests in the game outside your little Auburn bubble you know.

Not sure what point of mine would lead you to think that I believe otherwise.

'Resources' - What resources? To my knowledge, effectively all Western Sydney clubs get the same resources from GWS. Sporadic visits by players/coaches, free tickets to games, Auskick on field opportunities. If any club gets more than this, they get more than us.

Clubs with the Giants mascot get a bit of social media support, and potential opportunities to play at the Main Arena.

I think many people would agree with your thoughts on the Academy (e.g., Paul Moore).

I also agree that Manly getting support is pretty silly. The way it was rationalised to me when I asked the question in 2014 was that they were the first team to ask to become Giants, so GWS went with it. (I know nothing about the Manly partnership beyond this).

However, that still doesn't answer the question: What do you want GWS to do?

[Norris Lurker]

I really don't see GWS' non-mention of the Ramettes making the Div 2 GF last year as noteworthy. This isn't due to any Auburn bias I have, I genuinely think it's a non-issue.

GWS did mention some of the other AFL Sydney Grand Finals on their Twitter; but not that one. Unfortunate - that Grand Final was on immediately before the Giants' magoos were playing a final; so maybe their social media person was otherwise pre-occupied that day.

[mountainsofpain]

GWS did mention some of the other AFL Sydney Grand Finals on their Twitter; but not that one. Unfortunate - that Grand Final was on immediately before the Giants' magoos were playing a final; so maybe their social media person was otherwise pre-occupied that day.

As far as I am aware, Penrith were the first ever senior ladies' side from the GWS area to make a grand final.

You would think that an AFL club which is allegedly representing western Sydney would take the time to acknowledge the fact. And maybe even wish them the best?

This isn't rocket science of course. The Giants are looking for support and they are supposed to be a western Sydney club. So why on earth wouldn't you build up goodwill with the stakeholders in the area instead of either ignoring them or (even worse) alienating them?

[Mug Punter]

As far as I am aware, Penrith were the first ever senior ladies' side from the GWS area to make a grand final.

You would think that an AFL club which is allegedly representing western Sydney would take the time to acknowledge the fact. And maybe even wish them the best?

This isn't rocket science of course. The Giants are looking for support and they are supposed to be a western Sydney club. So why on earth wouldn't you build up goodwill with the stakeholders in the area instead of either ignoring them or (even worse) alienating them?

Let's be honest here, they are a bunch of muppets who just have not had a clue since day 1 about engaging with the community.

And whilst Mr Wills doesn't think that is important I think it was critical they made a good start but they have taken an arrogant approach. Pekay's post says it all. They let Sheeds come up here and insult people thinking the good people of western Sydney would feel honoured to be poked fun at by such a raconteur. They helped destroy a proud junior club and they've poured their small amount of grassroots support into a team that won't go west of the Spit Bridge.

You seriously couldn't make it up.

They think all they need to do is win games and we'll all come along because all Sydney cares about is winners and we're just so shallow up here. Well, I'm not sure about that, there weren't many people there against the Gold Coast. It will be interesting to see how many they get this weekend as that really is Match of the Round, any less than 12,000 and they're in trouble

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Not sure what point of mine would lead you to think that I believe otherwise.

'Resources' - What resources? To my knowledge, effectively all Western Sydney clubs get the same resources from GWS. Sporadic visits by players/coaches, free tickets to games, Auskick on field opportunities. If any club gets more than this, they get more than us.

Clubs with the Giants mascot get a bit of social media support, and potential opportunities to play at the Main Arena.

I think many people would agree with your thoughts on the Academy (e.g., Paul Moore).

I also agree that Manly getting support is pretty silly. The way it was rationalised to me when I asked the question in 2014 was that they were the first team to ask to become Giants, so GWS went with it. (I know nothing about the Manly partnership beyond this).

However, that still doesn't answer the question: What do you want GWS to do?

Let's agree to disagree, BTW all the best with your work with Auburn, I'm sure they are a fine bunch of ladies.

Shame the men's team couldn't show the same degree of class but that's old news now luckilly

[CKunde]

Let's be honest here, they are a bunch of muppets who just have not had a clue since day 1 about engaging with the community.

And whilst Mr Wills doesn't think that is important I think it was critical they made a good start but they have taken an arrogant approach. Pekay's post says it all. They let Sheeds come up here and insult people thinking the good people of western Sydney would feel honoured to be poked fun at by such a raconteur. They helped destroy a proud junior club and they've poured their small amount of grassroots support into a team that won't go west of the Spit Bridge.

You seriously couldn't make it up.

They think all they need to do is win games and we'll all come along because all Sydney cares about is winners and we're just so shallow up here. Well, I'm not sure about that, there weren't many people there against the Gold Coast. It will be interesting to see how many they get this weekend as that really is Match of the Round, any less than 12,000 and they're in trouble

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Let's agree to disagree, BTW all the best with your work with Auburn, I'm sure they are a fine bunch of ladies.

Shame the men's team couldn't show the same degree of class but that's old news now luckilly

I think we agree 100%, probably just me articulating poorly.

Tell you what I'd like to see them do: Have 1 FT and a couple casual staff available to assist clubs with admin, fundraising, recruiting volunteers (especially casual ones). I think having something like that would help lift the burdens of running clubs and allow for more focus on the actual football side of things.

I'm interested in knowing what other clubs want from them.

[mountainsofpain]

Let's be honest here, they are a bunch of muppets who just have not had a clue since day 1 about engaging with the community.

And whilst Mr Wills doesn't think that is important I think it was critical they made a good start but they have taken an arrogant approach. Pekay's post says it all. They let Sheeds come up here and insult people thinking the good people of western Sydney would feel honoured to be poked fun at by such a raconteur. They helped destroy a proud junior club and they've poured their small amount of grassroots support into a team that won't go west of the Spit Bridge.

You seriously couldn't make it up.

They think all they need to do is win games and we'll all come along because all Sydney cares about is winners and we're just so shallow up here. Well, I'm not sure about that, there weren't many people there against the Gold Coast. It will be interesting to see how many they get this weekend as that really is Match of the Round, any less than 12,000 and they're in trouble

I'm a bit disappointed in myself for falling for the propaganda. They said they were going to be a western Sydney club, it was unequivocal. And I believed them. Silly me.

That's the crux of my criticism, that they have failed to live up to what was promised. They are only a "sort of" western Sydney club at best. They are so desperate for success, the grand vision they outlined has long fallen by the wayside.

Put bluntly - they will do whatever it takes, in the process just putting to one side what was promised.

Games in Canberra, ignoring stakeholders in the GWS area, sponsoring Manly, holding major functions in the CBD instead of the GWS area - that's not a club serious about the west of Sydney, sorry.

I think I still have the Team GWS brochure here somewhere, it's an interesting read in light of what has transpired. At best it is misleading, at worst.....well, I won't say.

You are right in what you say, the attitude seems to be "win and they will come". I am not sure if that is the case. They seem to have forgotten that they have a population of around 2 million to work with. Why not do that then?

I am in the same boat as Pekay, except that I still have my membership - at this stage. I doubt if I will keep it much longer. GWS took a giant dump (pardon the pun) on western Sydney when it sponsored Manly, and it is really hard to support them in return because of that.

That Manly decision is one of the most absurd things I have ever seen in football. Amongst other things it showed a complete and utter misunderstanding and misreading of what was supposed to be their very own demographic.

Put bluntly, they **** on their own back yard.

As for the girls, well it is just basic common sense with marketing. If you are trying to win support across an area, you don't play favourites. You take an even handed approach. Posters who think it is about which side was here first, or who think it is about who has the Giants' branding, don't seem to understand this.

I think part of the problem is that it is an AFL appointed management. So they aren't answerable at all to their members. I have emailed them several times with my concerns about some of the issues mentioned here and they are just too arrogant to even reply (bearing in mind that I am a member). That's hardly a smart approach.

At some stage, the Giants need to decide what they want to be. As they currently are, I would prefer they drop the pretence of being a western Sydney club and just call themselves the Sydney Giants. That would at least bring a bit of honesty back to the table.

[Pekay]

Tell you what I'd like to see them do: Have 1 FT and a couple casual staff available to assist clubs with admin, fundraising, recruiting volunteers (especially casual ones). I think having something like that would help lift the burdens of running clubs and allow for more focus on the actual football side of things.

Further to this, I'd like to see Development officers INDEPENDENT of any club affiliations that can get into the schools and recruit the boys and girls to our game. Not feathering the nest of their home club.

The fact that the Giants are setting the footy world on fire and are 5 on the trot, and get 8k-ish to a favourable time slot suggests that they've probably hit their peak here. I give it 3 years and they'll be the Canberra Giants. They always had that redundancy built into their club.