GWS and it's impact on your club - Please Answer

[cos789]

No criticism, just a statement of fact - the Swans did not have that benefit at the time of their struggle, so any comparison is spurious.

And I'm saying that's a dissapointing fact on the part of the AFL )that we didn't get more support).

As for the benefit of a second team, no question it is a good thing, but it would be unhealthy and ingenuous for any self respecting Swans fan to give the GWS Jaffa's any kind of a leg up ...

Attending the odd game is hardly a leg-up but if it concerns you I'd suggest attending a local game.
It's amazing how many people forget that there's plenty of attractive football outside of the AFL.

[Mug Punter]

I understand that this is a swans forum, so there's always going to be one eyed swans views, but Mug, your lack of appreciation for the swans history is the embarrassment here.

Anyone who has been on the swans wagon for the long haul would know how hard it is to establish a presence in the Sydney market. As another poster has already pointed out, the swans average crowds in the early 90s were lower than what the Giants are currently pulling. I remember going to a swans-saints game in the 90s with 3 mates (all of us in rugby league jerseys) and playing kick to kick across 3 empty bays.

But look at the swans now - it took a long time but now a huge following and plenty of on field success to show for their persistence. In time, GWS will grow and prosper like the swans have, and it can be nothing but good for footy in NSW.

No peanut, you are the one showing your ignorance. I was at the first game at the SCG in 1982 v Melbourne and haven't missed too many game since so don't you dare lecture me.

The Swans took a while to develop but we had nothing like the benefits GWS are getting and to suggest our early crowds were anything like their crowds are is just ignorant, I was there and they weren't. Within four years of the Swans being in Sydney, with a little Edelsten cash that was nothing compared to what GWS have got, we were getting 30,000 - 40,000 crowds regularly (look it up if you don't believe me). GWS will never get that.

And yet again a clown trots out the crowd card from the early 90s. Even at our lowest, and we did have a few 5,000 - 6,000 crowds against poor drawing teams, and don't forget we were terribly bad on the field with Buckenara as coach, our average crowds never fell below 9,000. Yes they were dark days but they were a blip.

We have been in Sydney for over 30 years and I think it is fair to say that since 1996 under Eade and the GF (remember that one?) we have been a very established club. The only thing that really held us back was lack of AFL support in developing the Sydney market.

I am ambivalent about GWS and if they are good for footy in Sydney. I assume you have never played the game but have a read of some of the posts on here and those in clubland will let you know in no uncertain terms that they add very little to their club, unless of course you are Manly (100% the dumbest decision ever). They spend very little on development but game the academy system to get players they do stuff all to develop.

They are a TV Team for a TV deal and my personal view is that the Melbourne mafia will not tolerate a club that takes 2,000 people to a GF winning five flags straight whilst draining $20m out of AFL coffers to cover their losses, they just won't cop it. And really nobody from Sydney will care because we have had our team for over 30 years and they are called the Swans and any real AFL fans are already on our bandwagon. GWS will end up in Canberra full time within 10 years and that is where they should have been from Day 1

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No criticism, just a statement of fact - the Swans did not have that benefit at the time of their struggle, so any comparison is spurious.

As for the benefit of a second team, no question it is a good thing, but it would be unhealthy and ingenuous for any self respecting Swans fan to give the GWS Jaffa's any kind of a leg up ...

A totally spurious comparison

[Rowdy#8]

Your a funny old fella Mug, very emotional, but funny. My post was not so much a lecture, but made the pretty simple point that the market in Sydney is tough to crack and takes time, which you actually agreed with somewhere in there. But since you put in the effort, it would be rude of me not to reply to the rest.

Within four years of the Swans being in Sydney, with a little Edelsten cash that was nothing compared to what GWS have got, we were getting 30,000 - 40,000 crowds regularly (look it up if you don't believe me). GWS will never get that.

Interesting looking up the swans average home crowds in the early years (82: 16k, 83: 12k, 84: 12k, 85: 10k, 86: 26k, 87: 22k, 88: 12k, 89: 12k, 90: 9k, 91: 11k, 92: 10k, 93: 9k, 94: 10k). Those regular 30,000 - 40,000 crowds that you remember didn't come until after the run to the GF in 96. I won't hold that against you though - memories can get a bit hazy over 30 years.

But anyway, I'm not really interested in playing off crowd figures between clubs - my point was simply that Sydney is a tough market to crack and takes time, which you more or less agreed with:

The only thing that really held us back was lack of AFL support in developing the Sydney market.

so I'm happy to leave that discussion there.

I assume you have never played the game

You have made this assumption based on absolutely zero, which comes as no surprise really after spending years of reading your baseless comments about Sydney Uni, Wests, Campbelltown, ECE, and so forth. But for the record, I did play over a decade of senior footy in Sydney (if its really that important to you, some of the longer term posters on here like Tara know me and can vouch) and have spent the last few years coaching junior club footy and the occasional school program. So, I have seen first hand how grassroots footy in Sydney has gone from practically no engagement from the AFL and its clubs, to having quite a lot in the junior system over the past few years.

My club is in a Swans zone and I am fully aware of the outstanding work that the Swans do in the local clubs

A question for you - Can you please tell us what the swans do for the senior clubs in the swans zones. This board has had lots of discussion about why gws entered a partnership with Manly, and that baffles me as much as everyone else, but coming from the other angle, what were (or weren't) the swans doing with the best senior club in their area if Manly had to turn to GWS for assistance ? I'm genuinely hoping you attempt to answer this one instead of your usual treatment of inconvenient questions (like ignoring or resorting name calling).

[Zlatorog]

A question for you - Can you please tell us what the swans do for the senior clubs in the swans zones. This board has had lots of discussion about why gws entered a partnership with Manly, and that baffles me as much as everyone else, but coming from the other angle, what were (or weren't) the swans doing with the best senior club in their area if Manly had to turn to GWS for assistance ? I'm genuinely hoping you attempt to answer this one instead of your usual treatment of inconvenient questions (like ignoring or resorting name calling).

As far as I know, Sydney Swans were never paid by AFL to develop AFL market in Sydney, but GWS is and that is the point of this thread. Until academies and GWS came along, AFL themselves were responsible to develop AFL game in Sydney not the Swans, and we know how bad they were at that.
Only Sydney Swans haters would derailed this thread with their petty comments and there are a few of them around here.

[cos789]

As far as I know, Sydney Swans were never paid by AFL to develop AFL market in Sydney, but GWS is and that is the point of this thread. Until academies and GWS came along, AFL themselves were responsible to develop AFL game in Sydney not the Swans, and we know how bad they were at that.

So you are saying the extra development because of the introduction of GWS is basically good for football.

[Rowdy#8]

As far as I know, Sydney Swans were never paid by AFL to develop AFL market in Sydney, but GWS is and that is the point of this thread. Until academies and GWS came along, AFL themselves were responsible to develop AFL game in Sydney not the Swans, and we know how bad they were at that.
Only Sydney Swans haters would derailed this thread with their petty comments and there are a few of them around here.

If you're referring to me there, I am by no means a swans hater. I'm glad that both Sydney teams are doing well, but I'm more a supporter of growing footy at grass roots than a particular AFL club. If anything, this thread was started as an anti GWS thread - again, I realise this is a swans board so some swans bias is expected, but as Cos has pointed out, in addressing some home truths, you have come around to the same conclusion as the posters on here that haven't been clouded by that bias, ie that having GWS is good for the development of the game.

[unconfuseme]

So you are saying the extra development because of the introduction of GWS is basically good for football.

It's fantastic if it was used to develop the code in a "greenfield" area, that is relevant to the new franchise, like oh, I don't know, let's say Greater Western Sydney!

Not when it is spent developing the code in the Riverina and Canberra, which are as established as any other part of regional Victoria ... Get it?

[cos789]

It's fantastic if it was used to develop the code in a "greenfield" area, that is relevant to the new franchise, like oh, I don't know, let's say Greater Western Sydney!

Not when it is spent developing the code in the Riverina and Canberra, which are as established as any other part of regional Victoria ... Get it?

So you're saying Canberra is a part of Victoria?

[saviour01]

cos, why do you feel the need to embarrass yourself on every forum you can? bigfooty, league unlimited, anywhere else?

[cos789]

cos, why do you feel the need to embarrass yourself on every forum you can? bigfooty, league unlimited, anywhere else?

Why do you continue to make ficticious and irrelevent remarks directed at people rather than subject in question? Is is because you cannot make a valid contribution?

There has been no stronger advocate for Australian Football and the Sydney Swans since their inception in Sydney.
There is probably few people who have attended more games of Australian Football at the SCG than me.
Unlike some people here who post for somewhat dubious reasons I am not jealous at the attention that our cross-city rival is attracting.
Just like the Swans were criticised for being successful now GWS is being criticised for being succesful.

If the introduction of GWS had to be the catylist for investment in Australian Football in Sydney then so be it.
The introduction of GWS has had so many benefits one of which is drawing higher crowds than 4 rl clubs.
Isn't that good savour?

[Rowdy#8]

It's fantastic if it was used to develop the code in a "greenfield" area, that is relevant to the new franchise, like oh, I don't know, let's say Greater Western Sydney!

Not when it is spent developing the code in the Riverina and Canberra, which are as established as any other part of regional Victoria ... Get it?

There's alot more to the academies and pathways programs that you'll here about from the Age or by listening to Damien Barrett or Eddie.

Let's take Conner Owen-Auburn as a case study. At 13, he was dominating at the St.Clair club. Pre academy era, he most likely would be carried on, being coached by his teammates dad, continuing to dominate lesser talented kids before maybe going on to a prem division club and getting by on natural ability. But, with the GWS academy in place, he had the opportunity to be coached by top level coaches, get expert help with fitness and nutrition programs, and train/play with and against the best kids in the state and continually take his game to new levels. With the benefit of 4 years of top development, he played a bit of seniors last year at Penno as a 17 year old and did very well. TAC cup this year with a chance of being drafted or Rookie listed at the end of the year.

Best case scenario is that he gets taken by an AFL club, gives other kids in the area a role model to aspire to, and one day brings that experience back into the Sydney AFL. Worst case, is that he is overlooked, comes back to Penno and our league has another top line player. Much better than the pre-academy scenario of player potential going to waste.

[Pekay]

Since the missus and I had a little boy for me to live my failed dreams through, I've been looking at the junior set up of footy in Sydney and how the landscape has changed.

Back in my junior days, from Hills/District to Hills/Hornsby to Northside comps, we would play far and wide against the stronger clubs - Penno, Westbrook, Baulko et al. Then we expanded and combined with North-Shore Warringah and competed against the likes of Forest, St Ives, Willoughby. Sure, the boys at Seven Hills would rarely scratch up a win against the powerhouses but it made you realise how hard footy was getting, there were no easy games any more, coz the likes of Penrith and Hawkesbury were playing against the same tough teams.

I look now, and for my little bloke to play for Hawkesbury (my junior club has since disappeared, and I live 30 minutes from Richmond anyway) would mean playing in a 2nd tier comp against Camden, Campbelltown, Emu Plains etc. Sure, these clubs might be strong in their own right, but are they big fish in a small pond? If he shows any potential (if he does indeed play footy) will I have to drive an hour to Kellyville or Baulko for him to compete in the Sydney Harbour comp? We all know that development officers are quick to rubbish the smaller clubs to potential academy footballers to get them to the stronger clubs, its happened since my days and any suggestion it doesn't is bullspit.

But if that's what it takes for my son to be be noticed and get those opportunities, well that's what will happen. My dad was willing to bust his arse to get me noticed, I was just too lazy and hated the system at that age. And God knows the current rabble that is Division 2 Under 19s is no place to be noticed these days.

[Rowdy#8]

Since the missus and I had a little boy for me to live my failed dreams through, I've been looking at the junior set up of footy in Sydney and how the landscape has changed.

Back in my junior days, from Hills/District to Hills/Hornsby to Northside comps, we would play far and wide against the stronger clubs - Penno, Westbrook, Baulko et al. Then we expanded and combined with North-Shore Warringah and competed against the likes of Forest, St Ives, Willoughby. Sure, the boys at Seven Hills would rarely scratch up a win against the powerhouses but it made you realise how hard footy was getting, there were no easy games any more, coz the likes of Penrith and Hawkesbury were playing against the same tough teams.

I look now, and for my little bloke to play for Hawkesbury (my junior club has since disappeared, and I live 30 minutes from Richmond anyway) would mean playing in a 2nd tier comp against Camden, Campbelltown, Emu Plains etc. Sure, these clubs might be strong in their own right, but are they big fish in a small pond? If he shows any potential (if he does indeed play footy) will I have to drive an hour to Kellyville or Baulko for him to compete in the Sydney Harbour comp? We all know that development officers are quick to rubbish the smaller clubs to potential academy footballers to get them to the stronger clubs, its happened since my days and any suggestion it doesn't is bullspit.

But if that's what it takes for my son to be be noticed and get those opportunities, well that's what will happen. My dad was willing to bust his arse to get me noticed, I was just too lazy and hated the system at that age. And God knows the current rabble that is Division 2 Under 19s is no place to be noticed these days.

Your drive might be a little bit longer Pekay. As of this year, both Baulko and Kellyville have moved to the Western Sydney comps. Still some teams playing in North Harbour during transition but the majority now playing in the Westetn Sydney comps.

[Pekay]

So it would seem there is little future focus on kids in the greater west if that's the case. Kurrajong to Pennant Hills or Cherrybrook is a big ask. 40km the way the crow flies. Might just move to Melbourne!

[cartman48]

A question for you - Can you please tell us what the swans do for the senior clubs in the swans zones. This board has had lots of discussion about why gws entered a partnership with Manly, and that baffles me as much as everyone else, but coming from the other angle, what were (or weren't) the swans doing with the best senior club in their area if Manly had to turn to GWS for assistance ? I'm genuinely hoping you attempt to answer this one instead of your usual treatment of inconvenient questions (like ignoring or resorting name calling).

In my 15 years with the Southern Power - F@#k All.....