Wollongong Lions promoted to Premier Division

[Northshore_fc]

AFL (NSW/ACT) Commission General Manager, Dale Holmes announced today in Wollongong that the Wollongong Lions will be promoted to the Premier Division in the Sydney AFL competition commencing in 2005

Great move for the competition!!

[Norris Lurker]

Congratulations to Wollongong, and that's definately a positive move. The drive down to the Gong next year will be interesting - it could be quite a home ground advantage for the new club.
Will there be a 10th team, or will there be a bye next season?

[shearer]

All teams will get two byes next year..

NL congrats on all the match reports and coverage you have done for season 2004, they have made great reading.

[Rafters]

good luck to the Lions

[Troy G]

St George will be thrilled with that decision ...not!

They should not be expanding the Premier Division of Sydney AFL. As I've said before Senior Footy is dead in Sydney! When is someone going to wake up? All the best people are getting out.

The clubs are just Junior clubs now, and it's all about the juniors and has been for some time. Which isn't a bad thing, but please let's not pretend and kid ourselves anymore that the be all and end all in Sydney is the Seniors because they're just not! Juniors get the money, juniors are priority number one!

Have as many Junior clubs as can be sustained I say, but it's time to bite the bullet with the Seniors and admit major change needs to happen and it has to happen now this off season. It's time to address the imbalance! It's time to admit we can't go on as we have been, because it's just not working.

The only way you are going to create interest in local Aussie Rules is if some Sydney teams at SENIOR LEVEL are competing in the Canberra AFL (aka State League) with the Canberra clubs,Wagga and the Swans Reserves.

At Senior Level they should be merging NOT expanding!!

It's obvious when you think about it and if two clubs do it and announce they are going to the Canberra AFL whilst keeping their junior identities in Sydney, the rest will follow.

The current eight in my view should become four:

North West Club: East Coast (Baulkham Hills) & Pennant Hills.
Inner West Club: Balmain & Wests.
South East Club: UNSW & St George.
North Shore (who've earned the right to stand alone).

Four new strong Sydney clubs would create real excitement. Imagine the feeling of Round One.

All four new clubs capable of getting greater sponsorship (wider area and recognition), good coaches (you could pay them more), good players (Rams would come home for a start) and greater support and members (people would actually know they exist).

Sadly, I'd keep Campbelltown as a Junior club for now until they can prove they are strong enough. I'm sure the AFL would help fund a State League but they aren't going to throw good money after bad as things are now!

A State League would also get widespread media coverage in the press, community radio would call games each weekend as happens in the football states and Canberra now and Fox Footy would cover it as they do the SydneyAFL now, but more people would be interested and actually watch!

Imagine these four brand new strong teams playing at the SCG, Telstra and Manuka as the curtain raisers against the Canberra clubs, Wagga and Swans Reserves.

It's the only way Senior football will survive in Sydney.

It's the only way the Swans Ressies will come back to the grassroots of Sydney, if there's a strong competition and playing at those grounds.

Bring it on!

[Rowdy#8]

Originally posted by Norris Lurker
Congratulations to Wollongong, and that's definately a positive move. The drive down to the Gong next year will be interesting - it could be quite a home ground advantage for the new club.

It's more than the distance that makes it a home ground advantage. North Dalton Park sits on top of the hill and is exposed to a pretty strong ocean breeze - very tricky (and sometimes frustrating) ground to play on.

Good luck to the Lions. They are a very well managed club and I hope they do well.

[Rowdy#8]

Troy, I agree with you that there is a strong need for a state league to lift the standard and interest of our game in Sydney and NSW, but some of your points I do not agree with :-

Originally posted by Troy G
The only way you are going to create interest in local Aussie Rules is if some Sydney teams at SENIOR LEVEL are competing in the Canberra AFL (aka State League) with the Canberra clubs,Wagga and the Swans Reserves.

At Senior Level they should be merging NOT expanding!!

It's obvious when you think about it and if two clubs do it and announce they are going to the Canberra AFL whilst keeping their junior identities in Sydney, the rest will follow.

Campbelltown tried this in the mid 90's to seek a higher standard competition and most people in Sydney treated it as a betrayal. The experiment didn't work and they were back to the SFL within a couple of years. I think Sydney clubs will be relunctant to try this again, and the Canberra league would probably be relunctant to accept a Sydney side again.

Originally posted by Troy G
The current eight in my view should become four:

North West Club: East Coast (Baulkham Hills) & Pennant Hills.
Inner West Club: Balmain & Wests.
South East Club: UNSW & St George.
North Shore (who've earned the right to stand alone).

Four new strong Sydney clubs would create real excitement. Imagine the feeling of Round One.

All four new clubs capable of getting greater sponsorship (wider area and recognition), good coaches (you could pay them more), good players (Rams would come home for a start) and greater support and members (people would actually know they exist).

The idea of desecrating the existing Sydney clubs and forcing them to merge would not win much support. Some of the formation clubs, such as Balmain have a hundred years of history and they are not likely to give that up too easily.

An ideal state league setup IMO would consist of 16 teams - the swans reserves, 4 sides from the Canberra region, 3 sides from the Wagga region, 1 rep side from the central coast, 1 rep side from Newcastle, 1 rep side from the Central West AFL, 1 rep side from Wollongong/South Coast, and 4 from Sydney (the 4 from Sydney selected in their current state based on a financial and performance criteria - they will obviously attract better players playing in a league of this level. The remaining four to form a revamped 14 team Sydney league with the current SFA clubs).

Just my thoughts - may be being a tad ambitious but I am sure a comp such as this would generate more interest across the state from both supporters and sponsors, as well as providing the Swans with some top quality curtain raisers, and the Redbacks with some quality opposition, and the opportunity to base themselves in Sydney.

Originally posted by Troy G
admit major change needs to happen and it has to happen now this off season

There's no way you can expect any major changes next season. Clubs will be in pre season training in 2 months. Any major changes such as those that you propose would take at least a year to implement.

Originally posted by Troy G
Sadly, I'd keep Campbelltown as a Junior club for now until they can prove they are strong enough.

Short memory? Campbelltown were in the finals as recently as last year (2003), and in a grand final as recently as 2001. Every club goes through rough patches. They have a growing junior base and will be back in the fray soon enough.

[shearer]

Troy G, i am not speaking on behalf of the St George Crows Club but personally i think Wollongong will be a great inclusion into the league.

In my 15 years at St George we have had 3 Wollongong juniors play for the club, so its not like we will lose all our player base.

Wollongong 18's have been in the comp for a few years and they develop there own, they have never stolen a St George junior.

As for your pie in the sky idea about merging clubs so that we get the privilege of our asses being kicked in the ACTAFL league, i dont agree for one minute.

As you pointed out clubs are struglling, imagine the extra burden of the following in clubs balance sheets:

* Cost of Travel(hire of buses)
* Accomodation(especially in Wagga)
* Fuel costs to travel for players to Canberra.

You wont need clubs to merge they will fold like deck chairs.

The SFL has just come off the best finals series its had in ages, with the emergence of Henson Park & progressive people in the league such as Anthony Dignan & Simon Laughton. BUT you want to consigne clubs history to rubble and make them join a super league that they dont want to be apart of.

When all this was brought up a few years ago, the players spoke about it and 99% said they didnt want to have to travel to Wagga & Canberra every second weekend. The players have lives outside of football and while they want to win premierships they want to do it with there mates they have grown up with. NOT with blokes who have been the enemy for 10 years.

Blokes who want to chase the $$$ can already try there luck in Canberra, but you have to realise that the SFL is grassroots, with a lot of club loyaltys. I would hate to think how many good people would walk away from the sport if there beloved clubs had to merge.

We are doing our best to keep people involved with the club not give them a reason to walk away.

[Troy G]

Hi Rowdy,

The Campbelltown experiment failed because clubs are left to go it alone if they want to change the status quo! If they want better for their club. This is why change must be encouraged as a whole comp by the NSWACTAFLC in conjunction with the clubs and the AFL.

Campbelltown may have have come fourth in an eight team comp last year but this year it was last and never one a game!

I took the view that the Sydney component of the Canberra AFL (aka State League) must be very strong from the start to succeed. And sadly, CT would not be at this stage.
I'd love to see them strong in their region and I have been a supporter of CT for this reason in the past and still am.

It makes me laugh out loud when people bring up "tradition and history" as an argument to merging where the SFL is concerned. Tradition and history is only as strong as the people that know and care about it. I doubt there's more than ten people at each club that know the clubs history past the last five years.

And what great history?, what great traditions? People act as if we had mergers the sky would fall in, but as far as the 4 million people in Sydney are concerned it wouldn't even rate a mention and barely a ripple in the SydneyAFL itself!

For example, when the Dragons became the Crows did anyone care but half a dozen people? Was there outrage? Did it make the 6pm news, after all there's great tradition! If Balmain merged at Senior Level with Wests apart from the past what exactly would it be giving up?

When Baulkham Hills became East Coast? When North Shore became the Bombers? When Campbelltown became the Panthers? When the Swans played against them with one less?
When UNSW and the Bulldogs merged?

When Wests changed to Sydney Magpies the NSWACTAFLC were against it because it might hurt Collingwood! Talk about over estimating Wests importance in the Aussie Rules world.

So it's no argument! Clubs in the SFL simply aren't big enough and the comp strong enough, and the following large enough, and the interest in clubs generally, for this to be a factor.

PS. In a State League it's vital to get Sydney and ACT right first. Start small and strong, and grow with strength. One team in Wagga is the way to go first (not three) and I wouldn't even think about Newcastle, Central Coast and the Gong at Senior Level until Sydney and ACT are going strong and the structure is in place and all those other factors are happening sponsorship, members, media, players, coaching, club and comp admin etc.

[Troy G]

Shearer,

You're thinking as many do when I bring this up... as one club. Merger means two! The only single club I'm proposing to take on the ACT sides is North Shore! Forget what we have now, that's not what I'm proposing. Teams will have the same numbers, financial burden will ease because of increased opportunity for sponsorship via increased recognition and media and the AFL may even come to the party to assist with travel.

If the draw is done so that night games are only played between teams in the same city you won't need accommodation in Canberra at all. It's a three hour drive and it's not like it's every week because it's home and away! You play and drive back every fortnight. And you hire a bus so you don't have to drive by the way!

It's not much different to what the NSWAFL made clubs do before, compare this to say Campbelltown who had to wake up in the dark on Sunday mornings to be at the SCG in time to get ready/ warm up and play the 10am game? Compare that to waking while it's light to travel to Canberra to play in the arvo?

Tell me why that so bad and why that can't happen?

PS. Arses kicked??

You don't think a combined St George/ UNSW Senior side would match it with the ACT sides?

[shearer]

Very simple Troy to say that the world wouldnt fall in when you are an independant observer. I might be wrong but you have never been associated with any of the clubs in the SFL. Its very easy to say get rid of something that you have never been apart of.

Last year the St George Club had over 300 people to its 75TH anniversay, i reckon the club will get 15 when the 80th anniversary invite says "we would like to invite you to The Southern Sydney Bulldogs 80th anniversary".

As for the change of name from Dragons to Crows, Bears to Bombers etc, that was a provision the clubs had to meet to stay in the SFL. So basically do it or your out, easy choice for the clubs dont you think.


You still havent answered my question on how clubs would finance this and also acknowledged the point that clubs and PLAYERS dont want to be apart of this.

Your negative rants about the SFL are growing tiresome, maybe you should find another sport to annoy.

[Troy G]

I covered the competition in the media with results/fixtures/ interviews for five years I committed and invested enough of my time and my own money to the SFL in that time and I thought it would not be right to become a member of a club if I was covering the comp as a whole. Later, I just didn't have the desire.

I did stop. But Shearer, this is Australia mate I'm still entitled to an opinion and to put forward my views and debate this with criticism should I choose no matter how much people want the comp to remain criticism free. I think the end of the season is the perfect time to have this debate. It's just a shame that more people from across the Sydney AFL aren't putting their views and more independent observers! Or not observers, those that have never been to a game of SydneyAFL.

Do you really think 300 people is a good figure after 75 years? Apart from current players and their family and partners, how many from the past 75 years turned up?

[Jacks]

Apparently the clubs have had it wrong all these years. They have been wasting their time trying to find sponsors and sources of income when all they had to do was merge with someone and immediately a tonne of cash drops from the sky. Thanks for this amazing new fund raising idea Troy.
Can you explain to me why all the media outlets would immediately become interested in a state league when we can't even get the AFL Finals into Sydney live or events such as the Brownlow Medal.
The media coverage that the SydAFL gets now only comes about because of the hard work of local people that have been involved in the league for years. Should we see mergers to compete in a State League these people would no doubt start to follow he SFL Div 1 and then you would lose most of the coverage that we have now.
The SydAfl has no Major Sponsor at the moment and a State League with no media coverage other than community radio stations that have limited listeners is unlikely to attract one.
If clubs were to merge it will only result in those clubs at best maintaining the support they already have. There is no logical reason why a sponsor that is not involved in footy now would suddenly want to become involved because clubs started to merge and played in Canberra every second week. Not much incentive for Sydney based sponsors to be involved.

[Troy G]

That's the spirit, Jacks!

[Norris Lurker]

I couldn't see a league of Sydney and Canberra teams working. The travel involved would be too much to ask of players and teams working on a shoestring budget.
But one idea that could be worth considering - we already use a bit of English soccer terminology with premier league, first & second divisions; so maybe it may be worth bringing in some form of knockout FA Cup style tournament.
Teams in Sydney and Canberra would play local teams until the semi finals, with the top 2 from each league going into the later rounds. Maybe bring in one team from Riverina, Central West, Black Diamond and Farrer and make the quarter finals the first playoff round.
Clubs would only need to travel at most 3 times a year, so the impost wouldn't be too big; but would still enable statewide competition while preserving the history of the current clubs and the local Sydney AFL and Canberra AFL competitions would continue. Cup final day at Manuka or Henson Park would be a great showpiece for local footy.