Best Lists and ignorance

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  • sharp9
    Senior Player
    • Jan 2003
    • 2508

    Best Lists and ignorance

    I am sick and tired of ignorant journalists proclaiming stuff about "best list" and "unbeatable" etc when they clearly do not do their research.

    The Eagles did not win last year despite having the most sensational midfield/ruck possibly ever assembled.

    The fact that they didn't win was not, however, bad luck or some sort of weird anomaly. They didn't win because they had no leadership of any quality and far, far, far more importantly their list is ordinary.

    Did I say ordinary? Yes I did.

    Staker, Braun, Hansen, Chick, Hunter, Nicoski, Green, Gardiner, Banfield. Some reliable players, some youngsters with a lot of upside but no players that other teams might fear or even have to plan for.

    Try this exercise. Pick a team from Sydney and West Coast 2005. How many from each team? I'll do it for you as the team nearly picks itself.

    Crouch - Barry - C. Bolton

    Wirrapanda - Glass - Kennelly

    Judd - Cousins - Kerr

    Davis - Hall - O'Keefe

    Buchanan - O'Loughlin - Sampi

    Cox, Kirk, J. Bolton

    Ball, Fletcher, Embley, Williams.

    Now in case you can't count, that's 13 Swans and just 9 Eagles. Think I'm being harsh? Well the unlucky players are ( in order) LRT, Stenglein, Fosdike, Schneider and Hunter....so even the next in line go 3 to 2 in favour of the Swans.

    Another way of looking at this is to say that of the starting 18 just 7 would be Eagles. Seven. That's why they lost. Too many left to do too much. Staker, Gardiner etc were needed to perform at a high level because the stars were already at 100% yet the game was not won. They were found wanting.

    Do you want the good news? There is little prospect that this will turn around during 2006. Where is the improvement to come from? Not saying it can't. But it not nearly as likely as improvement from Adelaide, Bulldogs, Richmond and Essendon.

    And looking at the lists I can't see Syndey going in as underdogs against the Eagles at the moment.
    "I'll acknowledge there are more talented teams in the competition but I won't acknowledge that there is a better team in the competition" Paul Roos March 2005
  • NMWBloods
    Taking Refuge!!
    • Jan 2003
    • 15819

    #2
    I think you can make a case for Braun in the side.

    Pure numbers aren't necessarily so instructive as potentially more of the West Coast players are capable of turning games. However, this points to exactly your comment, which is critical - too much left to too few.

    A dominant midfield will get a team a long way. It will struggle to kick winning scores against a disciplined outfit away from home though.
    Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

    "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

    Comment

    • Schneiderman
      The Fourth Captain
      • Aug 2004
      • 1615

      #3
      I think you are very generous to Fletcher. The guy is a dud. Yes he has had some great games, and his 2004 was a real bolt from the blue. But stick any one of our midfielders alongside Cousins, Judd, Kerr and Embley, and they'd look more impressive than Fletcher ever has. Braun is in the same boat IMO.

      I think Fosdike has far more ability than Fletcher, and is turning into a bit of a game winner himself (well a 'momentum changer' in any case). His two games at the MCG last year (Richmond and the GF) really demonstrated that. In both games, he really came to the party when it mattered the most.

      So IMO I'd have Fosdike in instead of Fletcher. And Sampi.... pleeease. He is unfit, lacks focus and passion, and has just the one mark to make him look good. Hunter or Schneider would be better in that spot.
      Our Greatest Moment:

      Saturday, 24th Sept, 2005 - 5:13pm

      Comment

      • Ryan Bomford
        On the Rookie List
        • Sep 2003
        • 652

        #4
        Re: Best Lists and ignorance

        Originally posted by sharp9

        The fact that they didn't win was not, however, bad luck or some sort of weird anomaly. They didn't win because they had no leadership of any quality and far, far, far more importantly their list is ordinary.
        Very convincing - in retrospect, why didn't we beat them by 40?

        Comment

        • Schneiderman
          The Fourth Captain
          • Aug 2004
          • 1615

          #5
          Re: Re: Best Lists and ignorance

          Originally posted by Ryan Bomford
          Very convincing - in retrospect, why didn't we beat them by 40?
          Well there was the matter of the MOL/O'Keefe kicking for goal to remember.
          Our Greatest Moment:

          Saturday, 24th Sept, 2005 - 5:13pm

          Comment

          • hammo
            Veterans List
            • Jul 2003
            • 5554

            #6
            Great post Sharp9. I agree on almost all points. Agree Fosdike could probably sneak in ahead of Fletcher.

            I am also sick of ignorant journalists talking about superior lists and best list in the AFL.

            The bottom line is a "talented" or "strong" list doesn't win football games and does not take into account factors like teamwork, discipline, tactics etc.

            For all the media's platitides of West Coast and St Kilda's lists they still don't have any premierships to show for it.

            It's time Sydney got far more credit for the team they've assembled from middle to low draft picks and trades.

            I'm sick of hearing about St Kilda being robbed last year by injuries (if their list is so talented they should have enough good players to overcome them) and West Coast being the best team assembled in living memory (sure a great midfield but essentially a totally unbalanced side with a forward line that would struggle in the ACTAFL).
            "As everyone knows our style of football is defensive and unattractive, and as such I have completely forgotten how to mark or kick over the years" - Brett Kirk

            Comment

            • NMWBloods
              Taking Refuge!!
              • Jan 2003
              • 15819

              #7
              And our third quarter was absolutely abysmal. We had a team completely on the ropes, who looked disinterested and were playing with the ability of a wooden spooner, and we nearly let the game slip with some shocking football.

              I watched the game again a day or so ago, and I was staggered yet again by how pathetic we were in the third quarter when we could have put the game beyond doubt by 3QT.
              Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

              "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

              Comment

              • Schneiderman
                The Fourth Captain
                • Aug 2004
                • 1615

                #8
                Originally posted by NMWBloods
                I watched the game again a day or so ago, and I was staggered yet again by how pathetic we were in the third quarter when we could have put the game beyond doubt by 3QT.
                Definately a mental switch off at half time. We had been pushing to put the game beyond them by half time, only to have the break and mental relaxation turn the game right around.
                Our Greatest Moment:

                Saturday, 24th Sept, 2005 - 5:13pm

                Comment

                • Ryan Bomford
                  On the Rookie List
                  • Sep 2003
                  • 652

                  #9
                  Originally posted by hammo
                  I agree on almost all points. Agree Fosdike could probably sneak in ahead of Fletcher.
                  I have to chuckle to myself on the turnaround in RWO opinion on the previously much-maligned Fearless Fosdike. He puts two good games together and he goes from the scrapheap to AA selection.

                  Enjoy the sunshine Nic, at least for the time being.

                  Comment

                  • hammo
                    Veterans List
                    • Jul 2003
                    • 5554

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Ryan Bomford
                    I have to chuckle to myself on the turnaround in RWO opinion on the previously much-maligned Fearless Fosdike. He puts two good games together and he goes from the scrapheap to AA selection.

                    Enjoy the sunshine Nic, at least for the time being.
                    I've been driving the bandwagon for a while now

                    thread

                    Happy to go head to head with Sanecow's Spriggs badwagon any day.
                    "As everyone knows our style of football is defensive and unattractive, and as such I have completely forgotten how to mark or kick over the years" - Brett Kirk

                    Comment

                    • Sanecow
                      Suspended by the MRP
                      • Mar 2003
                      • 6917

                      #11
                      Originally posted by hammo
                      Happy to go head to head with Sanecow's Spriggs bandwagon any day.
                      Could get ugly, we have lots of accordians onboard.

                      Comment

                      • satchmopugdog
                        Bandicoots ears
                        • Apr 2004
                        • 3691

                        #12
                        Just wait until the Western Bulldogs game when the Fosdike/Spriggs bandwagons run headon to the Morris dancers on the Morris bandwagon. I might leave the country for that one.
                        "The Dog days are over, The Dog days are gone" Florence and the Machine

                        Comment

                        • Go Swannies
                          Veterans List
                          • Sep 2003
                          • 5697

                          #13
                          By then, the Swans back-to-back premierships bandwaggon should be rolling too - and that'll have Irish pipers from the O'Loughlin clan as well as Irish jiggers, of course. It could turn ugly.

                          Comment

                          • OldE

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Go Swannies
                            as well as Irish jiggers.
                            Jigging has been banned.

                            Comment

                            • liz
                              Veteran
                              Site Admin
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 16817

                              #15
                              Re: Best Lists and ignorance

                              Originally posted by sharp9
                              Try this exercise. Pick a team from Sydney and West Coast 2005. How many from each team? I'll do it for you as the team nearly picks itself.

                              Crouch - Barry - C. Bolton

                              Wirrapanda - Glass - Kennelly

                              Judd - Cousins - Kerr

                              Davis - Hall - O'Keefe

                              Buchanan - O'Loughlin - Sampi

                              Cox, Kirk, J. Bolton

                              Ball, Fletcher, Embley, Williams.

                              A team so strong that not even Goodesy can crack a guernsey?

                              Comment

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