Ben Fixter - was he given enough chance?

[stellation]

Originally posted by ROK Lobster
Not at all.
x-snip-x
(and I do mean that with the best of humour)

A great post rokster, you have explained my feelings on Roos with effort I could never muster.

[Legs Akimbo]

Good one ROK - well said.

To my mind, Roos is a likable personable guy - at least from what I see of him in the media.

However, there is something 'Grant Thomas' like about him and the way he manages the club, it's players. Sure, it yields results (unlike Cornflakes), but it makes me (and other 'piss takers' of the world) feel uncomfortable and contrary.

I guess at least half of a coach's role is to 'have the players' and 'losing the players' can be terminal. I suspect, an extension of our 'No @@@@heads policy' is 'no boat rockers policy'.

I think 'cultivating' the bloods 'cult' was a fair part of why we won the flag last year. But there is always a price...

[stellation]

I have to admit, I don't even think he seems like a likeable guy anymore. I find him a little too studied and false.

[NMWBloods]

I find his messages to the media are as useless and full of motherhoods as most players now. I'd rather listen to other coaches who will actually say a few interesting things (if I have to listen to footballers at all that is).

On the flipside I did hear a great story about him at grand final time. A supporter rang him (or sent him a letter, I can't recall) and mentioned that he and his dad were long-time supporters. His dad was very sick and the son hoped the Swans could win the flag for him. Roos replied with a card and said they'd do their best. Normally you'd expect that to be enough.

However, during the week after the GF Roos actually rang the guy to see how his father was and whether he enjoyed the game. Unfortunately he had died a day or two before, but I thought it was a very nice gesture when you consider all the other calls on Roos' time in that week.

[giant]

Originally posted by stellation
I have to admit, I don't even think he seems like a likeable guy anymore. I find him a little too studied and false.

I think that comes from increased media exposure. For an articulate (not eloquent) & intelligent chap, Roosy is actually a pretty poor media performer - that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think of the coaches that are/were good media performers (Wallace & Ayres come to mind) & they aren't necessarily the ones I admire as a coach. But it does mean that his rather folksy take on life & football starts to look a bit, as you say, "studied" as we see more of him in the media.

Personally, I don't see any of the arrogance & ruthlessness that others see with Roos, either in his media persona or in those few times I've had personal contact with him (& I emphasise few - I don't know the bloke well at all).

Rather, I see a bloke who has been clever enough to identify a game plan that just might work, convince an adminstration, coaching staff & playing group to jump aboard, and then execute pretty much to perfection.

Any of you that have studied management literature about leadership will know what a rarity it is to find in the commercial world someone with the suite of skills & traits to "dream, lead & execute" - Roosy seems to be one of those rare beasts.

That doesn't make him infallible or beyond rebuke but it does give him the benefit of the doubt in my eyes at least.

[pillowtalk]

Originally posted by ROK Lobster

I am saying that when someone says "he wanted to go - why would we want to keep him" that that question does not go far enough. "Why did he want to go" is the question and quite possibly the answer is because he knew that he had no future at the club. And how did he know, because quite possibly Roos had no faith in him.

Good post ROK.

FYI Ben did not ask for a transfer, he was told to look elsewhere. He was gutted.

Best of luck at the Lions for him!

[goswannie14]

My brother-in-law sponsored an award at the Australian Sports Awards, after presenting the award he had the opportunity to speak at length with Paul Roos. He said he was one of the most humble guys that he had met, found him to be friendly, personable and enjoyed the 20 or so minutes they spent talking.

Nick (My b-i-l) is not a Swans fan, although there is some chance that he could end up on the next board at the Kangaroos, so I take his comments as being unbiased and balanced.

I do agree with ROK though that to be a successful coach, or businessman you need to have a certain amount of arrogance.

[BarneyG]

From what I have seen from the games he has played for Sydney and Brisbane, is that he doesn't have footy smarts to make himself a top tier player.... So keeping him on the list was just wasteful.

And dont even start me with Mr Useless Sundqvist.

[Gary]

I have watched a reasonable amount of Brisbane & was keen for Ben to do well. However, while he has got a bit of ball (the stats aren't great) I have not seen him do a thing that suggests he is other than a bit player...a not very big bit player & certainly not the difference between what Sydney is at the moment, & what they might / should be.

[msb]

Nah glad hes gone, too many injuries a wasted spot on the list just like what doyle is at the moment

[Lucky Knickers]

Nah....he doesn't look all that flash IMO - bit slow/poor disposal - is a Matthews clone and is only being groomed as a tagger anyway!

[NMWBloods]

Nothing special - just an okay player.

[garethb83]

Originally posted by ROK Lobster
I expect Nick Davis was told that it was Paul's way or the Kingsway (is that a road in the Shire, that's the joke I was trying to make but don't really know my way around that neck of the woods).

You got it in one... the main road through Cronulla! Good job!

[cruiser]

Originally posted by ROK Lobster
Not at all. I support the club. I think Roos is a tremendous coach and I think that what he did with the 2005 list is nothing short of remarkable. I also think that he has influenced football more than any other person has in the time that I have been following football seriously enough to have some idea of what is going on.

That said, I do not think that he is beyond criticism. I think that part of what makes Roos the success that he has become is a streak of ruthlessness and a single-mindedness (and dare I say it - arrogance). These are the qualities of many successful people. I have no doubt that if Roos did not have faith in a player they would be let know it and be let know that it was probably in their best interests to look elsewhere - LRT has shown us that Roos is not wont to change his mind and is reluctant to let go once he has an idea that he thinks is right (again, qualities of successful people, no question).

There seems to be a collective view on RWO that Roos is all things to all players. On a list of 40 or so I think that that is far fetched. There will be players that do not get along with him, and do not reach their potential under his style of leadership. I suspect that Fixter may have been one, and have suggested elsewhere that Schaubs may have been in the same boat. I will be interested to see if Sean Dempster finds his way back into the side. I expect Nick Davis was told that it was Paul's way or the Kingsway (is that a road in the Shire, that's the joke I was trying to make but don't really know my way around that neck of the woods). Again, such an attitude obviously breeds success in a football club, and I don't know how useful it would be to try and be all things to all players anyway. The "no @@@@@head rule" is also a no misfits rule and a "no other way than the coaching staff's way".

I am not saying that I know that Fixter did not fit in and was shafted because of that, or Schaubs for that matter. I am saying that when someone says "he wanted to go - why would we want to keep him" that that question does not go far enough. "Why did he want to go" is the question and quite possibly the answer is because he knew that he had no future at the club. And how did he know, because quite possibly Roos had no faith in him.

I have been critical of Roos in the past and will continue to be. I think that he was a great player and has, in a very short time, proved himself to be an exceptional coach. However, I do not think that he is perfect and beyond criticism. I do not think it is fair to blame any difference of opinion between coach and player on the player. Not fair on the player and not fair on Roos. I think that he gets the most out of some players, but does not out of others. I think he is determined and prepared to be ruthless. It seems, no I really think it has been shown, that this brings results. I also think it comes at a cost and some of football's character is lost along the way - players become to an extent personality deprived clones, individual brilliance is toned down (working class, no superstars etc) the game becomes more machine like, more predictable, more deliberate, more professional, less fun, less spectacular. It is my opinion and others are welcome to theirs.

As I said I support the club. Just as I like some players more than others I like some players more than the coach and some officials more than some of the players. I wish no misfortune on others and just because I am prepared to be critical of Roos does not mean that i want him to be a failure or struggle when the Swans succeed. Life (and football) is not all Black and... not all Red and White Cruiser, it has many shades of Pink. I thought you, of all people, would know that (and I do mean that with the best of humour)

OK.

[cruiser]

Sorry, I'm joking with my flippancy. I appreciate what you are saying (and the trouble you went to with your reply ) and I actually agree with much of what you have said. You also provided a balanced view of Roos as a coach and that's something often missing from your shorter snipes at him.

My views about what I perceive to have been Schauble's poor treatment last year are well known on RWO and it was one thing that really pissed me off with Roos last year, right up until GF day. However, he was the person who finally coached us to a premiership and while I totally accept that it does not grant him messiah status and beyond criticism, and yes, his responses to the media are getting somewhat pedictable and uninformative, I trsut him to get on with the job, turn this team around (tonight please) and take them into another finals series.