Patron St. Stewie?

[Go Swannies]

Watching the Cats game replay, it was interesting to see Stewie Maxfield sitting alongside Roos in the coach's box. And the hardness came back into our game.

Roos later said that the Swans had been missing Stewie's brutal honesty (both to criticise and commend) around the club and the player meetings. Now he's there and the show pony and shirking have largely disappeared.

Despite all the suggestions here that Stewie was giving nothing to the club when he was playing in the early rounds of 2005, all the players and coaches might be onto something when they say that we owe him the Premiership.

Interesting that captains that are more impressive on the playing field (Voss and Tredrea) don't see to be able to persuade their team to regroup but Stewie, Roos and our three captains - plus the leadership group (come on down Goodes, Jude and Benny) - have apparently achieved that.

[liz]

Re: Patron St. Stewie?

Originally posted by Go Swannies
Interesting that captains that are more impressive on the playing field (Voss and Tredrea) don't see to be able to persuade their team to regroup but Stewie, Roos and our three captains - plus the leadership group (come on down Goodes, Jude and Benny) - have apparently achieved that.

I think that is highly insulting to Voss. He has regrouped his team time after time, and led them to three premierships at times when injuries would have cut down almost every other team. Yes, he has some great players at his disposal, but that should take nothing away from his leadership.

The fact that the Lions are struggling at the moment is down to the cattle they now have available. Roos, Hall et al would probably struggle to galvanise the current team to a consistent winning run if the team lost just three or four of the current mainstays, and they had Schmidt, Willoughby and Vogels running around in their places.

[Go Swannies]

So Liz, I gather if you think it's "highly insulting to Voss" that you think that he is an infinitely greater leader than Maxfield? I think that's highly insulting to Stewie. I can't see a player in a team led by SM having a go at the club chairman the night he wins a premiership. Or have a player start the Grand Final with a punch up in the goal square, just because it was his last game and couldn't be disciplined. Nor would I expect SM to have two players on report for cheap shots (and a slap) during a season defining game (and one in which 12 of my Premiership players were on the field).

I will admit to being influenced by the players I have spoken to who hold great respect for Stewie. But perhaps you know something that I don't that makes even a comparison between Voss and Maxfield highly inulting to the former.

[liz]

I have absolutely no idea how you reached the conclusion that my comments were insulting to Maxfield. I made absolutely no comment on Maxfield or his leadership abilities. I merely stated my opinion that your disparaging comments on Voss' leadership were misplaced.

[swansrock4eva]

I'll admit I'm with Liz on this one - Voss has had an uphill battle this year - things like the changes to the team, the sniping between Matthews and Aker etc - back in the end of the Eade days a similar sort of instability made it very difficult for our own team to be successful. But to say he's less of a leader - that's unfair.

[Go Swannies]

This all strikes me as very strange, bordering on surreal. After numerous discussion threads last year about how Stewie added nothing to the team - and was in fact a liability, I merely suggest that his role in the changing fortune of the Swans in 2006 might be more influential than those of us on the outside might think.

Yet not a single person here agrees our immediate past captain (and the captain for our Premiership year) deserves any credit for our success. Instead, RWO only want to leap to the defence of the captain of another team.

Meanwhile, there's another thread in hushed tones trying to decide what to do about Kel's sacred number.

This discounting of Maxfield by RWO is nothing new. Any time during his captaincy that anything positive was written about him you could stand back and wait for the criticism.

And now it happens again - the Maxfield theme of the thread is ignored and an imagined slight to Voss is attacked. The Lions are a rabble and Voss is the captain. Losing games is not completely a leadership issue but undisciplined behaviour on and off the field is. Can you imagine the threads on RWO if the Swans had the problems that the Lions have!

But back to the point I set out to make - Stewie sitting next to Roos during the game seems to coincide with the Swans going back to playing hard, accountable footy. So I, at least, am glad to see him there.

[swansrock4eva]

Again, nowhere have Liz or I discounted Maxfield. We have merely said that your comments regarding Voss were a bit harsh. We just haven't leapt up singing the praises of Maxfield's influence from the box in the same breath.

If you really want a comment on Maxfield, yes towards the end of his playing days his usefulness to the team DID drop both in terms of leadership and playing contribution. Whether he's had any significant influence in the players' mindset in recent weeks - who knows? The one thing that DOES worry me is that if it is his renewed presence that is responsible for the turnaround, I hope to goodness the players work out some alternate forms of inspiration because he won't be there forever!

I think it's been a large number of factors that have caused a lift in overall performance, and yes, Maxfield may have contributed a bit, but I suspect there are many more factors than just him - e.g. players returning to the side, players getting a bit more fitness and a bit more match fitness under their belts, re-evaluation by the coaches, getting the premiership celebrations done and dusted etc etc. But having said that we've won 2 on the trot and are at 3-3 - as good as it feels to be winning a bit again, it's certianly not enough by any means to suggest right now that we're "back on track." As has been pointed out in another thread, we've got some tough matches coming up, and I'd like to see our performances in coming weeks before starting to really amp up (or wring my hands :P).

[hammo]

Re: Patron St. Stewie?

Originally posted by Go Swannies

Interesting that captains that are more impressive on the playing field (Voss and Tredrea) don't see to be able to persuade their team to regroup but Stewie, Roos and our three captains - plus the leadership group (come on down Goodes, Jude and Benny) - have apparently achieved that.

Voss won three premierships in a row as captain - enough said.

I don't think there is any comparison between Voss and Maxfield, and even less of a comparision between Voss' feats as captain over a decade and the efforts of our captains over 2 weeks.

To write off Voss as a captain because of the Lions' poor start to 2006 is ridiculous and proves you don't know what you're talking about.

The Swans turnaround may have something to do with Maxfield but I suspect its more to do with getting back to doing what wins football games.

[Go Swannies]

Well Hammo, I think that you're merely supporting my point by example. Thanks for proving what I was saying.

On specifics, if you find me "writing off" Voss (who I have long admired) then perhaps you saying that I don't know what I'm talking about would be accurate. I didn't - I merely drew attention to the possible difference between on field performance and leadership.

I guess it depends what you want from your captain. Many have suggested it should just go to the best player. On the footy skill basis, Ben Cousins was one of best of the contemporary captains. Whereas others would say that so many off field indiscretions by him and other Eagles reveal poor leadership.

And using your reasoning about Premierships = good captaincy then Barry Hall (captain for one Premiership) must be a better captain than Nathan Buckley or Paul Kelly, who don't have one between them. I think even you would see that as ridiculous.

[Ruda Wakening]

Re: Re: Patron St. Stewie?

Originally posted by hammo


The Swans turnaround may have something to do with Maxfield but I suspect its more to do with getting back to doing what wins football games.

I think Go Swannies is saying that they were helped get back to winning games sooner rather than later because someone they respected as a group aided a few of them in pulling their heads out of their backsides and reminded them that they won a flag as a team.

[RogueSwan]

Oh can I play too?
Voss has proven to be a great captain. Six poor weeks this year should be defining his record, plus he has to work with what he is given. If the Blions had a 'no @@@@heads' policy would they have their current problems? I doubt it, but then again they probably wouldn't have Three premierships! It is a ridiculous as the AFL giving the Coach of the Year award to the Premiership coach.
As for Go Swannies comments about RWOers bagging Stewie last year, saying he was a liability, I think that you will find that once he stepped back the Swans got on a roll.
I don't think it is fair to compare a single person (Voss) to half a dozen (Maxfield, Roos, Hall, Kirk, Barry,Goodes...)

[RogueSwan]

I also think Maxfield should be credited with creating the current leadership/team attitude. It played no small part in winning the Title.

[Go Swannies]

Re: Re: Re: Patron St. Stewie?

Originally posted by Ruda Wakening
I think Go Swannies is saying that they were helped get back to winning games sooner rather than later because someone they respected as a group aided a few of them in pulling their heads out of their backsides and reminded them that they won a flag as a team.

Thanks Ruda.

Then again the "person they respected" may have been Old RoyBoy telling Tiger and Baz that they'd played like #### when they were at the Cross after the Dees game. Someone had to say it so good on him. I just wish I hadn't been standing up next to him when they turned around to see who called it out. Glad I told Baz I was Scott and ORB was ROK Lobster. Phew, close shave.

[CureTheSane]

Voss was an awesome captain and seems like a decent bloke.

And I think Maxfield was a very underrated captain.

[AussieAnge]

Originally posted by CureTheSane
Voss was an awesome captain and seems like a decent bloke.

I used to have a lot of respect for Voss but he definitely went down in my estimation when he took that dive at Telstra Stadium.

FWIW I've always had a soft spot for Stewie as he was instrumental in my becoming a fan of the game. He was also instrumental in getting us back in to the PF in '96.

It would be interesting to know if there is a nexus between his presence in the coaching box and the results on the field.