Match Thread. Grand Final!!! Swans v Lions.

[imuninformedtwo]

When you listen to the full interview, Roos' comments were a bit more nuanced than the headline suggests.

The bit I would argue with was we're an easy team to score against. Saturday would make the case we are, but that was down to 101 things (well, maybe one - no effort). Generally, not so. We had one of the best defensive records in the league, only two teams previously cracked 100 against us and we held a good ball movement team like GWS to 80 or less in three games. And his critique of us as a side that is exposed by 'run ons' from other teams - well, we are hardly on our own there.

Where I do think he has a valid criticism is we can get done around the ball and depend on turnover and surges in scoring to get the job done. The surge scoring I'm ok with as that's a function of the brilliance we have at our disposal. When we set up and apply our will at the contest and clearances - as we did in the last quarters against Collingwood, or the GWS final - it's lethal. But it's too rare and not yet ingrained in our DNA as an indispensable part of the game plan. We really do need a sustained commitment to it, and players like Mills who can make it happen.

[barry]

Found this enlightening listening to Paul Roos on what he thinks we need to do after suffering another heavy GF defeat:

- Change of game plan (too easy to score against over last 3 years)
- Prepare to trade anyone of value to fix holes in the list.
- Stick with Longmire as coach. Regards him highly.

https://www.abc.net.au/listen/progra...view/104414260

When I heard that, I just thought it was Roos defending his 'legacy'. Yesterday's man.

[mcs]

-Ashcroft ran to get a pass from the backline and Warner refused to run with him and was 20 meters behind when he took the mark.

He certainly wasn't alone in stinking it up or not working hard enough, but that moment stuck out to me on Saturday from where we were sitting because it was so blatantly obvious that it was 'all too hard' to put in the effort needed. Similar to the Gulden example highlighted elsewhere - was just 'too much' for the players to bring the intensity or pressure needed to even give ourselves a chance to be in the game, let alone win it. That still staggers me that for whatever reason we simply weren't prepared to do the hard yards needed. The 'motivation' question is the one that really burns - because for so long, if there was one element of our game we could almost rely on week in, week out, it was that the effort would rarely be in question. But now in the space of 2 years, we've seen multiple players perform at very low levels on the biggest stage, where it has not at all been unreasonable to question whether they were truly committed to putting in the effort required. And for a footy club on the biggest stage - that's a pretty damning question to need to ask.

[KSAS]

Found this enlightening listening to Paul Roos on what he thinks we need to do after suffering another heavy GF defeat:

- Change of game plan (too easy to score against over last 3 years)
- Prepare to trade anyone of value to fix holes in the list.
- Stick with Longmire as coach. Regards him highly.

https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/abc-sport-daily/afl-gf-review/104414260

[Blood Fever]

Just watched some damning highlights on you tube. Hard to watch.
-Lomon seen on three or 4 occasions 20 meters in the clear of Ollie Florent whom Matt Lloyd called the worse player on the ground and was disgusted that he refused to put any body contact. I hope we can get rid of Florent next year.
-Rampe went to try shut down a Bailey and signalled to Gulden to chase after Lomen.What did he do? he jogged after him and Lomen ran to be 10 meters clear and directly in front of goals.
-Ashcroft ran to get a pass from the backline and Warner refused to run with him and was 20 meters behind when he took the mark.
-They were all shocked how a 22 year old guy in Ashcroft could so easily break tackles. I was not shocked.

Getting beaten by a more skilful opponent I can understand. Getting beaten because you refused to run and refuse to put body on body I don't understand.

Still waiting for your source on Nick Daicos social media comment on Swans players. Can't find one mention of it anywhere. Totally untrue it seems.

[UUaswan]

I'm not sacking Longmire, he has a year to run and a supposed succession plan, all I'm saying is he does another role and let's some take over the Head role.

Of course you don't march a bloke of his standing out of the club, you have an adult conversation with a 20yrs servant and come to a proper decison.

He only has a year to go, if he was digging in he would want more years guarenteed, he doesn't, just do the handover.

[crackedactor 01]

Just watched some damning highlights on you tube. Hard to watch.
-Lomon seen on three or 4 occasions 20 meters in the clear of Ollie Florent whom Matt Lloyd called the worse player on the ground and was disgusted that he refused to put any body contact. I hope we can get rid of Florent next year.
-Rampe went to try shut down a Bailey and signalled to Gulden to chase after Lomen.What did he do? he jogged after him and Lomen ran to be 10 meters clear and directly in front of goals.
-Ashcroft ran to get a pass from the backline and Warner refused to run with him and was 20 meters behind when he took the mark.
-They were all shocked how a 22 year old guy in Ashcroft could so easily break tackles. I was not shocked.

Getting beaten by a more skilful opponent I can understand. Getting beaten because you refused to run and refuse to put body on body I don't understand.

[Merdo5555]

It is laughable in the extreme to believe any club would even consider replacing a coach of a team that won 19 games including two finals.

And has been embarrassed and failed to compete in 2 Grand Finals, didnt just lose but failed to compete.

Show me another coach who has managed that and hasnt been sacked.

Again losing is fine, failing to compete isnt.

There is only 1 coach in the world who didnt get stale and ultimately need go and that was Sir Alex Ferguson. Everything other coach in any sport you could name had a used by date, Loingmire has passed his. Take the "you have a job for life" charman with him. If you uttered that line in any other business you would be removed post-haste. Performance guarantees tenure, failing to turn up for a GF is not performing.

If in all of the GF defeats the other team had to work and prove they were the beater team no issues at all though you would question Loingmire's tactical acumen, when you fail to compete for 3 of them you question his fundamental competency!

[Merdo5555]

After a long drive yesterday I'm back at the computer. Where do I start? On a positive, it's great to have RWO running reliably so I can get away from the Facebook lynch mobs. Thanks. My wife (who stayed in Sydney) asked how I was feeling during the game and I replied that I was reading obituaries of Maggie Smith as that was cheerier than lifting my head to watch the game. When it finally came to its catastrophic conclusion I replied that I was gutted and vindictive and wouldn't be disappointed if I heard Horse announce his retirement on Sunday.

On the bright side, I elected not to go to the 2024 Grand Final dinner - I attended in 2005 and 2012 and they were magical nights (even 2006 was okay after an honorable one point loss) but after 2014 I couldn't face that level of mass depression again. Then again, after walking 10 km "home" from the MCG in a red hot rage after 2016 I said I'd never attend another Grand Final but I was there for 2022 and 2024. This one really hurt as I thought two years of added maturity reversed the "too soon" problems of 2022 and I really expected us to win. Obviously the issues remain and significant changes need to be made throughout the club to remedy that. In 2005 Paul Roos pre-game message to the team was simple: "if you play your best football, you'll win" - and they did. That message, indeed the Bloods culture, has been lost and needs to be found again. That may need changes in the coaching panel and/or the players but it needs to be substantial.

I'm going to the Club Champion dinner this Friday. I don't want jokes from Adam Spencer and platitudes from our management. I want to be told what the way forward is going to be. Because doing the same thing over and over for the same devastating results will break the club - and may have already broken some players.

A final observation. After 2022 I fled the MCG after Dane's speech (he does give very good runners up speeches, if that's a positive) but on Saturday I stayed. I wanted to watch the Swans players' reaction to the loss. I was surprised that that many seemed deeply disappointed but not devastatingly heartbroken. I was a bit shocked. Maybe they had had the last quarter to accept the inevitable loss or maybe there was something more. Incidentally, I mentioned this later to my Melbourne host, a casual Tigers fan, who had a seat near the boundary and he replied "it's interesting you say that as I thought the same thing, they almost seemed accepting of their failure". As both of us are team leaders in our outdoor industry - and used to judging the spirit of the team in good and bad times - I'm merely reporting our judgement and have yet to determine what it means?

It means that you have come to accept mediocrity. The fish rots from head down, when our Chair says the coach has a job for life that says everything; accountability and responsibility go out the door.

I called for Longmire's sacking after 2022, again not because we lost but because of how we lost.

Given there were no repercussions why is any surprised it happened again? If you set low standards dont be surprised you get low standards.

The organisation needs a massive shake up, the Chairman and coaching panel all need to go with new voices and new directions to be adopted. This will re-energise the playing group and give them a small chance of overcoming the psychological scars they have.

[Merdo5555]

That is the point of following footy; that it is inconsequential in the larger scheme of things. We can direct our energy, both positive and negative, in ways we usually cannot in other social frameworks.

It's hard to comprehend how pathetic our pressure was when everyone knew it was the key to the game. Brisbane played like a team you would expect to play in a grand final. How can the Swans put ups suck little fight.

We were a high pressure team in the early part of the season, then slowly slipped away. We found that we could win games on scoring ability alone, while allowing the opposition to have the ball for a majority of the game. After going 13-1, we should remember that we finished the regular season 3-6. So we entered the finals in fairly poor form.

The players and coaches all said that our preparation was great, but clearly it was not. There seems to be some mental aspect of the game that we left behind and can't find our way back from. It's not understood internally, or one would think it would have been rectified.

I've been a Longmire fan for most of the journey, but am now thinking that it might be time for a change. To bring a team into the GH so ill-prepared to put up a fight, shows a serious deficiency somewhere beyond the players.

It wasn't that we lost that disappoints so much, but rather the way we lost. And it's hard to see how that gets gixed. It's not just a matter of shuffling around players.

PS: Sorry I don't post very often these days, but my vision is quite poor/ which has limited my ability to read and write.

An honorable loss would have been fine and the ride well worth it.

The embarrassing lack of energy, effort, intensity and anything resembling the bloods culture is inexcusable. The players are as equally toi blame as the coach but we cant sack all of them, we can sack the coach. Maybe that we will wake the organisation up to the point where they embrace the real bloods culture.

Could you imagine any of Paul Roos' teams performing like that. Those teams had a lot less talent but extracted every drop of it. And dont talk about 2012 for Loingmire that was Roos' team with some tactical tweaks.

Longmire is incapable of building a team with the real "bloods culture" required to compete in and win a GF. And if we arent hear to win what are we here for. Its competitive sport. Your not going to win every game or every GF but you want them compete especially in a GF!

[Merdo5555]

You don’t change a coach who gets you to the last day. And nobody has suggested who that replacement should be. Yze, Nicks, Voss, Hinkley, Longmuir, Brad Scott etc? After all none of the have lost a grand final! Or maybe Ross Lyon - whoops he has lost two and won NONE and is considered a super coach.

Rubbish you change a coach who can get his team to compete on Grand Final day. If you can get your players up for a GF your incapable of doing the job and should go.

This professional sport, you dont get a ribbon for participating you get a prize for winning.

You cite Ross Lyon did he get smashed in 2 grand finals. He got heavenly beaten in the replay but i think you can excuse that one as his team was well and truly done injury wise by then.

Has a Brad Scott team turned up and failed to compete on GF day. No,

Losing isnt the issue, failing to compete is! Simple either he didnt get the team up to play a competitive game or he did and they didnt translate it to the field, either way he is responsible and must go. Take the Chair who promises you a job for life with you.

No-one in any organisation should every be promised anything, accountability gets results, complacency gets you 2 embarrassing GF performances.

Worst of all the team proved it wasnt a talent issue, they nearly beat Brisbane away down 3 players.

Sick of the trust John club, The only trust you could have is another GF smashing!

[Merdo5555]

Maybe the Swans coaches missed a few red flags. I trekked out
to Homebush to watch two teams who we might meet again in the decider Giants V Lions .
Did any Swans coaches go out there to watch this game live? Dunno.
The Lions miraculously pulled off a win, their form was now heading north, with adrenaline, now they had nothing to lose . I didnt realise Brisbane had so many skilled & agile players.
The Swans form had become patchy and Port wasnt
a really stern test.
My conclusion being The Swans coaches & players may have vastly underestimated the opponents in the Granny.
The Lions were a way better outfit on the day that
mattered most.

Its a grand final underestimating your opposition is inexcusable. Am I surprised? No, when the Chair promises you a job where is the accountability where is the pressure.

[The Big Cat]

He should step aside to another role.
We know He isn't leaving but needs to handover for the good of the club.

It probably only a year earlier than planned but the time is right, let someone else lead and take a different role

You don’t change a coach who gets you to the last day. And nobody has suggested who that replacement should be. Yze, Nicks, Voss, Hinkley, Longmuir, Brad Scott etc? After all none of them have lost a grand final! Or maybe Ross Lyon - whoops he has lost two and won NONE and is considered a super coach.

[Industrial Fan]

Roos era > Longmire era.

Not fancy football but we always put up a fight. Our opponents knew to expect one too.

There’s not a team in the league that wouldn’t back themselves to win a flag against us. We’re a dream match up and that’s embarrassing.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

It is laughable in the extreme to believe any club would even consider replacing a coach of a team that won 19 games including two finals.

Some historical perspective, in case it helps.
Horse is now the only Swans coach to take us to 4 grand final losses. Many criticised his tactical nous. However, this years 19 wins from 25 games is a 70% success rate.
Horse was previously tied with Jack Bissett, with 3 grand final losses. Many criticised his tactical nous. However, that third year Jack had a 80% winning rate.

Replacing Horse may be laughable Big Cat (I'm too distressed to think atm), but I do know we did replace Jack Bissett after his 3rd losing granny.

Additional historical perspective
Some people have referred to the Jack Bissett years as the Golden Age of the Swans - I wonder if the Horse era will be labelled the Platinum Age some time?