Doyle

[liz]

Originally posted by swantastic

Jolly had 50 more minutes on ground and didnt fare much better accept in the hit outs.

That's a pretty significant "accept" (sic) given that competing in the ruck is the primary purpose of a ruckman, particularly the way Roos seems to want them to play.

[Sanecow]

For those hitout stats to have any meaning, you need to know how many hitouts they each contested.

[swantastic]

Originally posted by liz
That's a pretty significant "accept" (sic) given that competing in the ruck is the primary purpose of a ruckman, particularly the way Roos seems to want them to play.

He was on the ground more than twice the time there for he should have had at least 12 possies IMO.But he did extremely well in the ruck,coming good at the right time of the season.

[goswannie14]

Originally posted by swantastic
He was on the ground more than twice the time there for he should have had at least 12 possies IMO.But he did extremely well in the ruck,coming good at the right time of the season.

Personally I think if a ruckman wins the hit outs, that's great. If he does well around the play then that's a bonus.

The exception was in the 70's when "Teaser" won the brownlow as a ruckman, sort of in the Goodes mould of rucking, where he won the hitouts and was dominant around the ground.

[swantastic]

Originally posted by goswannie14
Personally I think if a ruckman wins the hit outs, that's great. If he does well around the play then that's a bonus.

The exception was in the 70's when "Teaser" won the brownlow as a ruckman, sort of in the Goodes mould of rucking, where he won the hitouts and was dominant around the ground.

GS14 a lot of youngens on here wouldnt even know who GT was.They even named a car after him.

[Danzar]

His problem is simply time. He needs it to prove match fitness, and in the words of Chow Chicker, 'stamp his authority'.

But, he has very little in the way of time, given how long it's taken hime just to get back to this starting point.

Sydney needs a highly experienced ruckman, such as Spida, so that we can develop the rest of our ruck prospects. Clearly, Jolly would be project A, with Shaw project B (IMHO).

To say we have five specialists is correct on technicality only. There's not enouigh experience at a senior level.

The problem is, if you put Spida in, with Jolly as backup (you can't play Spida as backup), you eliminate Doyle's chances at developing himself.

It's a massive dilemma. I hope a solution is found. I'd love to see Spida in, supported by Jolly, with Jolly taking over when Spida retires.

But that would almost certainly mean sacrificing Doyle, whc ih I would hate to see, unless an alternative position can be found.....interesting.....

[goswannie14]

Originally posted by swantastic
GS14 a lot of youngens on here wouldnt even know who GT was.They even named a car after him.

When I lived in St Arnaud I occasionally went to Rotary meetings at Donald. There was a huge picture of the mark Teaser took against North Melb at Arden St in round 22 1977. I remember because I was there, and our win that day got us into the finals for the first time since 1970.

The shot was of Teaser with the ball in his hands, almost parallel with the ground at shoulder height. Ohh the memories......

Sorry I am digressing. I think Doyle has made a good start, and as long as both he and Jolly win the hit outs, I'm happy. First use on the ball on more than 50% of occasions is a great advantage.

[Snowy]

Robbie and co. were a big wrap for him on the couch tonight.

[liz]

Originally posted by Danzar

To say we have five specialists is correct on technicality only. There's not enouigh experience at a senior level.

But you're never going to get senior experience into players if you don't give them a go. If we get Spida next year and he and Jolly carry the ruck between them, where will we be in two years time when Spida retires? Still with no other rucks with any senior experience.

I realise the club is in that window of opportunity when it thinks it can remain competitive for another couple of years, but I hope they can continue to get senior games into the inexperienced, but quality, players languishing on the list. Otherwise we'll land up like Brisbane and Port in a couple of years time.

And if we wind back the clock to 1996, Stafford came into that season with barely a handful of senior games to his name but overnight became a very very handy ruckman, and was a significant part of the march to September.

[ROK Lobster]

In terms of injuries, Everitt and Doyle are about as likely as each other to be useless in 2007. If both stay injury free Doyle will be better value than Everitt next year. Spida has had it. Doyle would be about half the price of Everitt too. The Spida window of opportunity has passed - stick with the Donk.

[ScottH]

Originally posted by ROK Lobster
In terms of injuries, Everitt and Doyle are about as likely as each other to be useless in 2007. If both stay injury free Doyle will be better value than Everitt next year. Spida has had it. Doyle would be about half the price of Everitt too. The Spida window of opportunity has passed - stick with the Donk.

Yep, was thinking the same thing this morning. I heard that the hawks players are trying to convince him to stay. Better the devil you know. (and cheaper)

[barry]

If Jolly is out No.1.
I think we could scrape together a No.2 out of:
Doyle (who may play 10% of matches)
Gardiner (who we recruit, and plays 50% of matches)
Chambers (who can do the other 40%)

Once Shaw/Erikson start pushing for selection, one or two of Doyle, Chambers or Gardiner gets delisted.

[ScottH]

Originally posted by barry
If Jolly is out No.1.
I think we could scrape together a No.2 out of:
Doyle (who may play 10% of matches)
Gardiner (who we recruit, and plays 50% of matches)
Chambers (who can do the other 40%)

Once Shaw/Erikson start pushing for selection, one or two of Doyle, Chambers or Gardiner gets delisted.

Gardiner has indicated he wants to play in Victoria, apprarently.

[Old Royboy]

Stick with the Donk. I get the heeby geebies even thinking about signing a 32yo to a two year big dollar contract which would likely be a transit lounge to retirement. Draft picks can be put to much better use, especially this year. A good ruck coach can teach our lot just as well as Spida. If the Donk falls over, Shaw gets an early start. He?s a big boy already, will be bigger come next year and I reckon will be ready. .

[Danzar]

Originally posted by liz
But you're never going to get senior experience into players if you don't give them a go. If we get Spida next year and he and Jolly carry the ruck between them, where will we be in two years time when Spida retires? Still with no other rucks with any senior experience.

I realise the club is in that window of opportunity when it thinks it can remain competitive for another couple of years, but I hope they can continue to get senior games into the inexperienced, but quality, players languishing on the list. Otherwise we'll land up like Brisbane and Port in a couple of years time.

And if we wind back the clock to 1996, Stafford came into that season with barely a handful of senior games to his name but overnight became a very very handy ruckman, and was a significant part of the march to September.

It depends on the strategy. If you want a slower, team development approach (such as the one Brisbane knocked back in lieu of three premierships) then you don't go with Spida. Instead, you play your inexperienced rucks and let them develop over time.

If you want a faster 'win-more-premierships' strategy (such as the one adopted by Brisbane between 2001-2003) then you get an experienced ruckman then create a clear succession plan.

OPTION ONE - Let's go at it and get more premierships.
1. Everitt.
2. Jolly.

Everitt retires and you move to:

1. Jolly
2. Doyle OR Shaw etc etc

OPTION TWO - Slow development:

You forgoe Everitt and go:

1. Jolly.
2. Doyle etc etc

That's the dilmemma. Go with option one and you all but kill any chances of Doyle making it with the Swans, at least.

Option Two and you're taking a punt that Doyle will step up. If not, you're stuck with a whole bunch of very inexperienced ruckman that will take even longer to develop. Hoping that one of those guys will surprise and immediately turn into a star (such as what we're seeing with Grundy) is a big punt and could only ever form a small, secondary part of any team plan.

Bear in mind, the rest of the team can't wait around for a well-developed ruck for too long - they age. Timing's critical.

Just hypothesising.