Words of wisdom on BigFooty

[Guzzitza]

Well if you want "evidence" of the injuries being carried and people not training they will never get specifics out of a Coach, but Roos does get asked this very question in the article below;

Article

This time last season, the Swans had a number of players who, although not 100 per cent, played through niggling injuries - and after some disappointing performances on Saturday, Roos was asked if that was perhaps a problem again this year and whether it was a reason why Hall failed to make an impact on the game, with just two marks and two kicks.

"We've still got a couple, but not as many as we had last year and certainly not as many as we had in the middle of the season," Roos said. "Most of the guys are pretty well training - there is only probably a couple that aren't at the moment and they are the ones you are probably concerned a little bit about. But, collectively, we're in pretty good shape.

Would think it was pretty clear what Sanecow is saying, as its been a topic brought up often enough lately. Just think, last grand final you had leo barry with a fractured cheek bone, and matthews and a crouch i think it was with dodgy ankles - my memory isnt good but there were several players had serious injuries but played on which Roos mentioned.

[Eala ?ireann]

With all due respect mate, I haven't missed the point at all. That just comes down to, were the other players who were playing below 100% still playing to a higher standard than Davis was? If yes, then they deserve to remain in the team while he doesn't. Players will often have differing levles of soreness, fitness etc and how you cope with this determines whether you're dropped or not. Therefore, saying that other players aren't fully fit so as a result of that Davis must be given a spot when he is fit, that doesn't follow. He has to prove to be at a standard better than those in the starting side whether playing with or without soreness etc. The argument is too simplistic.

If one player can play better footy injured than another fully fit player, you still go with the injured player.

[Eala ?ireann]

Originally posted by Guzzitza

Would think it was pretty clear what Sanecow is saying, as its been a topic brought up often enough lately. Just think, last grand final you had leo barry with a fractured cheek bone, and matthews and a crouch i think it was with dodgy ankles - my memory isnt good but there were several players had serious injuries but played on which Roos mentioned.

Again that is all fair enough, but do you agree that if an injured player is still capable of delivering better than the uninjured player, in the opinion of the management and selction team, he should not replace that player, eg Hall with sore back or Barry with sore cheekbone or Bolton with ingrown-bloody toe-nail or whatever!?

So, NMWBloods, of course there are different standards applied. Every player is judged on a combination of form, fitness, impact, strength, skill etc etc etc.

[Sanecow]

Originally posted by Eala ?ireann
If one player can play better footy injured than another fully fit player, you still go with the injured player.

That's exactly why Davis deserved to be in ahead of Phillips and Bevan IMHO. Cutting through the bull@@@@ though, Davis isn't being paid to be one kick or goal better than Phillips or Bevan, so they got a bit cranky with him.

[Guzzitza]

Firstly, I was merely posting the article not to argue but as i was reading it and RWO at same time and was relevant to what Giant was saying earlier in suggesting there was no evidence that we do in fact have players who are injured playing.

However, with regards to your point, does this suggest you think a fully fit Phillips is of more value than un-injured, 80% fit Davis?

Or what about an 80% fit Davis vs an 80% Reg - considering that people have noted in his games he falls off as the game progresses??


Edit:
Bah - NMW beat me to it!

[Eala ?ireann]

About Phillips I agree, definitely not as good, although getting a bit of experience into young fellas is also a management team's concern. Grundy has done well in my estimation. Davis is better, but in my opinion, not streets ahead. That's my own honest opinion.

The point I am trying to make is that some people seem to go overboard on this issue and have all kinds of conspiracy theories and anti-Roos theories that he just hates Davis etc and I think that blurs the fact that there are a lot of factors taken into account when putting out a side to play every week.

For example, playing young inexperienced lads like Phillips. Teams that don't do this end up with stale old teams that often, eventually fall to pieces and have to be completely rebuilt.

Davis to my mind was left out in the beginning because of lack of fitness and form, he compounded this with stupid comments to the media. The Swans club over reacted to this, no doubt in my mind, but then other factors came into play, such as discipline, time-scale on getting fit again, form of players who replaced him, the winning-streak at the time and getting senior footy minutes into the legs of some young fellas whilst playing bottom of ladder teams. This all kept Davis out of the side. I think it is time for him to come back and hope he kicks a bag full, but this does not condone lots of the non-sensical vitriol that has been on this site about the issue. People seem to get very hot under the collar and knee-jerky and forget to take a lot of factors into account (and unfortunately some intellectual lightweights then descend into name-calling etc).

The Swans have had a decent run without Davis, they may have won with him at the weekend, the may well have got thumped still, ('cause ball delivery was beyond poor in general), but now I reckon he'll be back and for the good of the Sydny Swans Club, I hope he kicks a ton of goals and for the cause of good sense and decency, I hope people on here remain sensible whether he plays his greatest or worst game in the red and white when he comes back.

[Sanecow]

Originally posted by Eala ?ireann
(and unfortunately some intellectual lightweights then descend into name-calling etc)

Lashings of hot irony!

[giant]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
However, other players are obviously not match fit and not performing to their potential, but remain in the side.

Oh, ok.

So who are they?

[Eala ?ireann]

Originally posted by Sanecow
Lashings of hot irony!

I picked on no individual to call names my friend, hardly any irony there.

Irony:

A)
1. The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
2. An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
3. A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. See Synonyms at wit1.

B)
1. Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: ?Hyde noted the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated? (Richard Kain).
2. An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity.






well, maybe you caught me out just a little bit...

[Sanecow]

Originally posted by giant
Oh, ok.

So who are they?

Barry Hall. He has kicked 18.18 since round 13.

For the same period (rounds 13-20) in the last three years:
2005: 30.9
2004: 23.11
2003: 20.11

His accuracy is down and he is reported to be carrying an injury.

[Xie Shan]

Yes, of course Roos is applying a different standard to Davis than to the other players. Whether he's right or not remains to be seen. But maybe the reason for this is that Davis IS different to most players! It doesn't matter if he's got more natural talent than most on the list, it doesn't matter whether he can play injured or not, he still has to put the work in and stay fit, and yes, probably pull his head in a bit too.

I don't believe there's any conspiracy theory here, just that Roos wants Davis to reach his FULL potential. You're welcome to agree or disagree with Roos' methods (the jury's still out IMO), but perhaps he believes that he needs to apply a higher standard to Davis in order to get him to reach that potential, and that only having to live with being dropped for this many weeks would send the desired message.

That said, IMO now it looks like the team is starting to suffer without Nick's skill, and that it's time to bring him back in.

[giant]

Thank you for answering my question.

Accuracy may or may not be symptomatic of an injury. I've missed any recent reports that he's carrying an injury. He's actually looked good to me in recent weeks & Saturday is not the first time Scarlett has towelled him up but I guess it's possible he's injured.

[Eala ?ireann]

Personally, I'd play BBBBH with one arm before Davis.

I've changed my mind though, the club obviously is out to get him judging by the unfortunate foto they've put up of the lad on the official site...rough!

[Xie Shan]

Originally posted by Eala ?ireann
Personally, I'd play BBBBH with one arm before Davis

Not me. His overhead marking lately has been suspect with two arms, let alone one!

[bigswan]

Why don't you people support your club instead of constantly carping on about your own players and measuring them up against each other. Criticise the opposition not our boys. We're starting to sound like Richmond and Geelong.