Doing the team thing...

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  • ROK Lobster
    RWO Life Member
    • Aug 2004
    • 8658

    Doing the team thing...

    ...too often just cost us a flag (perhaps). How many bloody dinky little passes and handballs cost us shots on goal yesterday? ROK's snap was a classic example of what they needed to do more of in yesterday's game. Admittedly it was a fluke, he was trying to do the team thing but it went towards goal, no one got a (clean) hand on it, and it went through. What it showed though was that you are more likely to score goals when you kick the ball in the direction of the sticks than when you unselfishly look for a team mate in a better position. At the same time, Hall's handball of to Goodes was close to the play of the day - and was the perfect thing to do. However, I think that many of the players - especially Hall - over do the handpass or the short kick when the better option might just be to have a ping.

    While the WC were, in my opinion, fantastic yesterday, and much more "Bloods-like" than the Swans, I think that the "team thing" cost us. Being "unselfish" also allows players to avoid responsibility. I used to love the way Wayne Carey could turn a game with 15 minutes of "selfish" play for the Kangas. I thought Goodes and Kirk both had fantastic second halves yesterday and tried to really impose themselves on the game. The same can be said for Fosdike and Davis, both who looked like they were prepared to take some responsibility for the direction of the game. The absolute stand out IMO was super Ted, who seemed to grow another arm, another leg and another heart yesterday afternoon - I thought he played a lot like a bloke who did not already have a premiership medallion. It's a pity he is not a bit better footballer because with a little bit more ability he could have won the game yesterday (though why he did not have a shot there near the end is beyond me - has it become so drilled into them that they must not take a "selfish" shot but must look for a team mate that players are no longer able to take that extra responsibility). The rest of the team however looked like rabbits in the headlights for much of the time. To be honest, they seemed to rely too much on the game plan, or on doing the team things and not enough on their instincts - and I don't mean flashy play, but also those scrapping, get it forward at all costs, push and push and push instincts that have got them over the line on other occasions.

    When it is all said and done, they were beaten by a better side. In perspective, a PF, a semi and consecutive Grand Final's (including a premiership and a 1 point loss) is an enviable 4 years and a fantastic result, for the players, for Roos and for the club. And to a very large extent, the well disciplined, self less approach the team takes has contributed in very large part to their success. Where I would like to see the team move is to a point where players are more inclined to step up, to do the occassional 'selfish' thing, to take a game by the scruff of the neck for 5 or 10 minutes and make a difference, or back themselves to do the unlikely or the impossible. As I said, I thought Kirk and Goodes had a good crack at it yesterday. Hall probably needed to do the same - sadly it wasn't to be (he had an absolute dog of a game).

    Turning up at half time cost the team in the end, much more than anything else. Fantastic spirit and endeavour made a real game of it. I don't want to point the finger, or lay blame, but sometimes, when passes aren't hitting their targets, when the opposition is premiership desperate to win, when players aren't quite on their game, when there are 100,000 people screaming their lungs out and everything seems to happen too quickly (I am sure that this year's final quarter was 15 minutes shorter than last year's), someone needs to step up and say "I'll take the responsibility - point me in the direction of the sticks".

    Sorry for the poorly thought out rant. I thought it was a great Grand Final. I think that WC were the better side and could easilly have buried us. I want McVeigh, Malceski and Ted to all get premiership medallions next year.
    Last edited by ROK Lobster; 1 October 2006, 08:19 AM.
  • graystar
    On the Rookie List
    • Oct 2005
    • 543

    #2
    Yeah, almost need to have a 5-10min "go for goal" framework.

    Just to roll the dice a bit.
    I will be a member again when I return.

    Comment

    • timthefish
      Regular in the Side
      • Sep 2003
      • 940

      #3
      i think you're onto something there.

      having dealt with my dehydration, i'm back off to bed.
      then again, i think it would be worth trying 15-16 players on field so what would i know

      Comment

      • floppinab
        Senior Player
        • Jan 2003
        • 1681

        #4
        well put ROK, pretty much sums up what I'm thinking.

        How we could put up a first half like that in a GF is beyond me, it was a return to the worst of the first 3 or 4 games and that poor run in the middle of the year. If the Eagles were on top of their game they could've buried us there and then.

        Comment

        • Legs Akimbo
          Grand Poobah
          • Apr 2005
          • 2809

          #5
          Going into the game it worried me that the players were telling everyone who wanted to listen (and a few who probably didn't) how relaxed they were,..ho hum ho hum. If players are saying that going into a GF watch out.

          Consequence. In the first half our super relaxed players were smashed by a very pumped up team who wanted it more.

          To my mind it is no coincidence that many of the players who stood up - Doyle, Richards, McVeigh, Malceski, did not play last year. Hunger.

          The second half was a brave effort, an extraordinary lift from our so called second tier players with some of the big boys - Goodes and ROK standing up too. But the damage had been done and although we fell only a point short, I somehow always knew we were not going to make it this time.

          I think we did have the selfish players out there we needed - Goodes, Hall and Richards all displayed risk taking behaviour and individual heroics at various times. Indeed, I think our failure in the last quarter was because they rushed their forward entries rather than worked their way in. No doubt what tends to happen when you are completely stuffed and under intense pressure (just throw it on the boot), but for that to work required Ball Hall to be waiting somewhere to take a contested mark.

          But Barry was having one of those days and that's not the way the team has been taught to play so they found themselves in unfamiliar territory.

          ROKL, this is where we agree and it is at a philosphical level...

          Although our discipline and spirit (and eagles exhaustion) kept us in it, we were also victims of the inflexibiity of our game plan. We are like Spartans and they are like Athenians. Our strength is our discipline - playing as one unit with rules and a culture where the collective dominates the individual. Total supplication to the team, no wastage, low possessions, formation plays, and occassionaly the break out, where the run forward of 18 superbly fit players can make the other teams look stupid. West Coast, the Athenians, play with individual brilliance as a collective of champions. Their game is about the expression of skill and prowess - Judd, Kerr, and Cox.

          Two totally contrasting (and equally valid) styles and yesterday's competition was football's Peleponnesian war.

          However, such is Roos' faith in our Spartan style of play that we don't have fallback option and Roos has no real cunning at making changes that can swing a game.

          Our Spartan nature is our greatest strength but yesterday it was our greatest weakness.

          Interesting footnote is that last year our day was saved by a moment of indiviudal brilliance.
          Last edited by Legs Akimbo; 1 October 2006, 09:29 AM.
          He had observed that people who did lie were, on the whole, more resourceful and ambitious and successful than people who did not lie.

          Comment

          • NMWBloods
            Taking Refuge!!
            • Jan 2003
            • 15819

            #6
            This goes back to my thread a few months ago about well-drilled against natural skill. The game plan failed for much of the day mainly it seems due to nerves. The players kept trying to stick with it, even when it wasn't appropriate.

            Goodes, Kirk and Richards really stepped up in the second half.
            Fosdike and Davis to a lesser extent.
            C Bolton was one of the few to play a solid game throughout.

            I'm pleased to be a part of probably the most exciting consecutive grand finals ever. Disappointed we didn't win, as I think we should have, but then again there was a luck last year and it could easily have gone the other way.

            As I said to my dad during the game, imagine ten to twenty years ago thinking the Swans would win a flag and then follow up the next year with another GF appearance. Truly the stuff of dreams back then. Hopefully we back up again next year, but I think we need to add a few more tricks to our game.
            Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

            "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

            Comment

            • Snowy
              On the Rookie List
              • Jun 2003
              • 1244

              #7
              Richards played a lot better than expected but still made some crucial errors. Ablett, Mathews and LRT all exposed as not quite up to it, even Ablett's injury notwithstanding. Leo Barry as I mentioned last week is struggling to keep up these days. Lack of a quality key defender (Craig Bolton is more than adequate in support role) is costly.
              LIFE GOES ON

              Comment

              • alison.z
                Regular in the Side
                • Aug 2006
                • 988

                #8
                i thought c.bolton was fantastic on hunter when he went forward and kept him almost entirely out of the game... i think we need another key defender for next year ... the difference between the players that played well for us and the ones who played poorly was the hunger ... davis was out to prove a point and mcveigh malceski doyle and especially richards wanted that win sooo much ...

                Comment

                • Agent 86
                  Senior Player
                  • Aug 2004
                  • 1690

                  #9
                  Re: Doing the team thing...

                  Originally posted by ROK Lobster
                  ...too often just cost us a flag (perhaps).
                  Maybe - but it was basically poor execution in the 1st half that cost us most rather than what we were trying to execute. WC beat us at our game & were able to apply more pressure than we could muster (or handle). Plus nerves & apprehension didn't help.

                  Comment

                  • Nolie
                    On the wing
                    • Jul 2004
                    • 522

                    #10
                    Re: Doing the team thing...

                    Originally posted by ROK Lobster
                    ... because with a little bit more ability he could have won the game yesterday (though why he did not have a shot there near the end is beyond me - has it become so drilled into them that they must not take a "selfish" shot but must look for a team mate that players are no longer able to take that extra responsibility).
                    Enjoyed this post. Have been doing the long neglected gardening and thinking about ROKL's comments here particularly in regard to Ted's team thinking.

                    I wonder what his teammates were saying to him - surely they must have been saying "Have a shot!" (he was more than 50 m out I'm sure) or were they telling him to go to MOL?

                    Comment

                    • ROK Lobster
                      RWO Life Member
                      • Aug 2004
                      • 8658

                      #11
                      Re: Re: Doing the team thing...

                      Originally posted by Nolie
                      Enjoyed this post. Have been doing the long neglected gardening and thinking about ROKL's comments here particularly in regard to Ted's team thinking.

                      I wonder what his teammates were saying to him - surely they must have been saying "Have a shot!" (he was more than 50 m out I'm sure) or were they telling him to go to MOL?
                      Was he that far out? He may have been - I was a little carried away with it all by then. I thought he was closer. I also thought he looked as though he had run a marathon and was struggling to remain conscious. That he could kick at all after the effort he had made was nothing short of astounding. I don't want to seem to take away from Ted's efforts at all.

                      I think that Bloods and Legs have probably made my point better than I did. Inflexibility (or a lack of adaptability) is our major problem - in a side that has few problems. Yesterday that had something to do with why a team of champions beat a champion team.

                      Comment

                      • prenda
                        Suspended by the MRP
                        • Apr 2005
                        • 117

                        #12
                        spot on rok
                        we had umpteen oppurtunities to slot it and the wrong decisions where made inside 50
                        amazing what a little bit of pressure does.

                        i have to say it was an amazing game of footy and im rapped that i was there to see it.

                        it was and extremely bitter pill to swallow in defeat but i now have taken my medicine and moved on
                        its funny in the analisys you think only if we did this or did that
                        at the end of the day the more deserving team won.
                        but i love the never say die spirt of the swans other teams would have walked off at half time and probably throwen the towel in but the boys had a red hot dig and im proud of them.

                        congrates eagles

                        Comment

                        • NMWBloods
                          Taking Refuge!!
                          • Jan 2003
                          • 15819

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Snowy
                          Richards played a lot better than expected but still made some crucial errors. Ablett, Mathews and LRT all exposed as not quite up to it, even Ablett's injury notwithstanding.
                          I felt we didn't even miss Ablett when he didn't come out after half time. My only worry was we were going to run out of legs being short a player, but obviously we didn't as we were running over the top of the Eagles.

                          In some ways this was a little like the Geel v. Hawthorn game of '89.
                          Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

                          "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

                          Comment

                          • ScottH
                            It's Goodes to cheer!!
                            • Sep 2003
                            • 23665

                            #14
                            Goodes did a Cousins (GF 2005). Missed to many easy targets when it really counted.

                            Comment

                            • Nico
                              Veterans List
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 11357

                              #15
                              I think what you are all saying is that we need to develop a little bit of flair about our play. To me Goodes is the only one that gives us that.

                              I thought Dempster showed that he can play other roles than tagging. No one mentioned him playing his guts out and giving us a target in the last Q. He gave us some speed across half forward and by gee just missed on gathering a couple of half chances.

                              In our midfield it showed up that we need someone who has genuine pace and know how. I thought Jude Bolton was poor. Even in the last Q which is normally his best, he just plodded. What, 7&7 on the stats is a horrible return for a centre bounce midfielder. He could not keep up.

                              Surely also Ben Mathews cannot be an automatic selection from hereon. He has no second efforts. At one point he got beaten in a one on one contest (not unusual), the Eagles player got clear and he just stood there and waited for someone else to chase.

                              Just on Ted Richards. His last half was that of a man who finally said, I believe in myself, threw the self doubt out the window and went almost to the top of the mountain. He proved he can play at the absolute extreme level of the game.
                              http://www.nostalgiamusic.co.uk/secu...res/srh806.jpg

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