Leo Barry

[NMWBloods]

How so?

A single error in the backline may cost 1 or 6 points. A single error in the forward line may cost 5 or 6 points.

Either way, the impact on the margin is pretty much the same. And that is all that counts.

An errant handball in the forward line means you turn the ball over, the score doesn't change. An errant handball in the back line means the opposition might score, the score does change. Yes, there is an 'opportunity cost' in the forward line, but there is a real cost in the back line.

If you're in front by 1 point in the final seconds, would it be worse to make an error in the forward line or the back line?

[KirksSocks]

How many times has Leo turned the ball over in the past for it to be risky NWBLOODS? Can you provide stats to back up what you say? Do you not see that he draws players and creates the loose player?

When he first started going on those kamikaze type runs i used to hold my breath and panic but the ratio of him turning the ball over and coasting us a goal has been minimal so i don't panic no more and in most cases he creates attacking options.

[NMWBloods]

Rubbish trolling as usual Diego!

His delivery of the ball, and decision making, has often been average over the course of his career - if not turnovers then disposal to put players under pressure or not to their advantage.

[Chow-Chicker]

If you're in front by 1 point in the final seconds, would it be worse to make an error in the forward line or the back line?

Yes but if you turn it around and say "if you're behind by a couple of points in the final seconds, would it be worse to make a mistake in the back line or forward line...."

[liz]

Yes but if you turn it around and say "if you're behind by a couple of points in the final seconds, would it be worse to make a mistake in the back line or forward line...."

Beat me to it!

And any meaningful analysis of costs recognises that opportunity costs are every bit as significant as "real" costs.

[NMWBloods]

Yes but if you turn it around and say "if you're behind by a couple of points in the final seconds, would it be worse to make a mistake in the back line or forward line...."

Both probably as bad, possibly the back line still worse.

You make an error in the forward line and turn it over, you are still behind by a couple of points, but you're still one kick out of the game. You make an error in the back line and the opposition scores, now you are two kicks behind.

But let's assume they are both as bad (because say there are only a few seconds left and not enough time for another shot), that means in the two scenarios (in front and behind) the total outcome of the back line error is worse.

[liz]

Both probably as bad, possibly the back line still worse.

You make an error in the forward line and turn it over, you are still behind by a couple of points, but you're still one kick out of the game. You make an error in the back line and the opposition scores, now you are two kicks behind.

But let's assume they are both as bad (because say there are only a few seconds left and not enough time for another shot), that means in the two scenarios (in front and behind) the total outcome of the back line error is worse.

If you're one point behind and with time left only for one scoring shot, the impact of a miss in the forward line is worse than the backline. Get the goal and you win. Give away another goal or point and you lose by 7, rather than 1. But who really cares on the margin if you lose.

Surely the point is that the relative impact depends on the context of the game.

[NMWBloods]

Yes, hence why I said you could argue that in the final seconds they are both as bad. Therefore when considering both scenarios, the downside to a turnover in the back line is worse.

When you consider that roughly 3 in every 4 I50s are turned over without scoring a goal, then giving the opposition a freebie in the back line is a major problem.

[Chow-Chicker]

But what if the error is made in the back line (the worse one) and the ball is gathered by a forward who also makes an error (the better one) and misses everything?

The ball will be out of bounds, and the defender has possession again.

[Nico]

I have never had an issue with Leo getting himself in the right position to take the ball. He is very good at peeling off his man to take a pass and certainly backs himself to take possession well up the field from full back. If he just kept running with the ball through midfield he could plonk it right into the square. Give it a roost instead of handballing off, and saying thats my bit done, and jogging back to FB.

My worry with him is that, as I have said before, he lacks vision. So many times he looks to go to the player who has made massive space to take the pass, but then inexplicably he turns back up to 20 metres, tries to take on the man coming towards him, then plays back to someone. At times he gives away up to 40 metres, quite strange. (I question whether he sees the first option at all) I reckon he would be far more effective if he took the first option more often as it would give us instant rebound. He really isn't a true rebounding back.

He is in the last 2-3 years of his career and it will come to a point where he will get away with the way he plays on much fewer occasions. It will be interesting to see if he changes his style as time rolls on.

[liz]

My worry with him is that, as I have said before, he lacks vision. So many times he looks to go to the player who has made massive space to take the pass, but then inexplicably he turns back up to 20 metres, tries to take on the man coming towards him, then plays back to someone. At times he gives away up to 40 metres, quite strange. (I question whether he sees the first option at all) I reckon he would be far more effective if he took the first option more often as it would give us instant rebound. He really isn't a true rebounding back.

I wonder if that is partly him worrying about his kicking skills. He is a decent - not great - kick on the run but from a standing start or off just one step he often sprays them when kicking more than 15 or 20 metres. It could be just that he's trying to get moving before he has to deliver the ball.

And of course, if he can't get a kick away on his left foot, there's no point in him trying to kick at all.

[NMWBloods]

I have never had an issue with Leo getting himself in the right position to take the ball. He is very good at peeling off his man to take a pass and certainly backs himself to take possession well up the field from full back. If he just kept running with the ball through midfield he could plonk it right into the square. Give it a roost instead of handballing off, and saying thats my bit done, and jogging back to FB.

My worry with him is that, as I have said before, he lacks vision. So many times he looks to go to the player who has made massive space to take the pass, but then inexplicably he turns back up to 20 metres, tries to take on the man coming towards him, then plays back to someone. At times he gives away up to 40 metres, quite strange. (I question whether he sees the first option at all) I reckon he would be far more effective if he took the first option more often as it would give us instant rebound. He really isn't a true rebounding back.

Yes, I mentioned decision making and disposal, and I think the former is the major issue. Still, I don't think his disposal is particularly flash for a rebounding half back (if there was a plan to make him one of those again).

[NMWBloods]

But what if the error is made in the back line (the worse one) and the ball is gathered by a forward who also makes an error (the better one) and misses everything?

The ball will be out of bounds, and the defender has possession again.

That's relying on the opposition making an error.

If your player has the ball in the pocket and decides to centre it, but kicks it to the opposition, is it better for your player to be in your forward pocket or your back pocket?

[liz]

That's relying on the opposition making an error.

If your player has the ball in the pocket and decides to centre it, but kicks it to the opposition, is it better for your player to be in your forward pocket or your back pocket?

Depends on whether you're one point up or one point down.

[Nico]

But he could be an outstanding rebounding back even from FB because he is prepared to run off his man to take possession.

Liz, in most cases he choses to go onto his right foot as the first option, even when it is clear to his left. Clearly he knows he hasn't got a right foot so he obviously has a premeditated intention to handpass, strange as it may seem. All I can say is that he is a quirky player and only he knows what will happen next, because we sure as heck dont.