McVeigh is useless

[Bloody Hell]

The role I'd have him pegged for is a mid-sized forward role, rather than a traditional small forward. It is the role that Robertson does for Melbourne, and O'Brien or Nicks used to do for Sydney - ie still a marking target but as a complement to the power forwards rather than just a crumber. It is the role that Davis is probably filling at the moment - with varied success.

In fact, given both were very disappointing on the weekend for different reasons, I'd switch the two of them around for a few weeks and see what happens. McVeigh couldn't possibly contribute less up forward than Davis did at the weekend - not just in kicks but in work rate and pressure skills. So there is no downside and potentially some upside.

And moving Davis onto a wing (but with an offensive but accountable brief rather than a predominantly defensive brief) would get Davis into the action a bit. He couldn't possibly contribute less defensively than McVeigh did at the weekend, and there's a good chance he'd use what ball he did get more constructively than McVeigh is likely to at the moment.

I actually think McVeigh's skills - hand and feet - are good enough. Not great but probably basically sounder than Fossie's. He just seems to be second guessing himself and completely down on confidence at the moment. So either he goes back to Canberra to regain that confidence by ripping games to shreds, or he gets given a different role in the senior team, just for the sake of shaking things up a bit.

Agree with the Canberra sentiment - but McVeigh vs Davis....Not sure if I've seen McVeigh take a decent contested mark, while Nick would be near best in the team. Don't think he plays tall enough to fill the medium role, which is why I assumed initially you were talking about the small role. (Agree Davis should spend more time in the middle).

Don't agree with the Fosdike one. I used to give him HELL. Fumbles Fosdike, everytime he touched (or more often tried to touch) the ball. The thing that kept him in the side was his foot disposal and the fact he was the only outside midfielder...then he played the 2005 GF, and hasn't looked back. The best solution IMO is send Mark's Brother back to the 2's, give one of the young one's a (decent) go (a month)- who can share the time up front and in the middle with Davis.

[liz]

Agree with the Canberra sentiment - but McVeigh vs Davis....Not sure if I've seen McVeigh take a decent contested mark, while Nick would be near best in the team. Don't think he plays tall enough to fill the medium role, which is why I assumed initially you were talking about the small role. (Agree Davis should spend more time in the middle).

Can't agree that Nick is one of the best contested marks in the team. I'd have him pegged down as pretty run of the mill. He takes the odd one that really sticks out - like that mark of ROK's kick in the 2005 SF and a good one on the boundary line last week. But they are pretty rare compared to other players of his size who play in similar positions.

McVeigh played that midforward role to good effect in the early parts of last season. He looked comfortable, switched on and kicked some very clever goals. He wasn't necessarily taking contested marks, but those shouldn't be the bread and butter of a mid-sized marking forward. It is the uncontested marks after working into space or making lead after lead after lead, doubling back, leading again etc to create that space that they should be doing week in week out. (Not just one lead then stop and sulk because the ball wasn't kicked to you.)

Don't agree with the Fosdike one. I used to give him HELL. Fumbles Fosdike, everytime he touched (or more often tried to touch) the ball. The thing that kept him in the side was his foot disposal and the fact he was the only outside midfielder...then he played the 2005 GF, and hasn't looked back. The best solution IMO is send Mark's Brother back to the 2's, give one of the young one's a (decent) go (a month)- who can share the time up front and in the middle with Davis.

Fosdike's disposal is variable. He goes through phases when he repeatedly coughs it up under no pressure. Those outside midfielders generally get the luxury of kicking with a little more time and poise than the in-and-under types, so they have far less excuse for missing. And even his good disposals don't have the hurt factor of other players - ie they might hit their target but don't travel quickly enough or to imaginative spots to really open up a forward line. He's a decent player but there are tons of "outside" midfielders with far more damaging disposal skills. They just don't play for the Swans...

[Bloody Hell]

Can't agree that Nick is one of the best contested marks in the team. I'd have him pegged down as pretty run of the mill. He takes the odd one that really sticks out - like that mark of ROK's kick in the 2005 SF and a good one on the boundary line last week. But they are pretty rare compared to other players of his size who play in similar positions.

You really don't rate Davis?!?....that's suprising. I admit he's inconsistant...but he is becoming more consistant. I think he's current troubles have more to do with team structure than his own form.

McVeigh played that midforward role to good effect in the early parts of last season. He looked comfortable, switched on and kicked some very clever goals. He wasn't necessarily taking contested marks, but those shouldn't be the bread and butter of a mid-sized marking forward. It is the uncontested marks after working into space or making lead after lead after lead, doubling back, leading again etc to create that space that they should be doing week in week out. (Not just one lead then stop and sulk because the ball wasn't kicked to you.)

He could do a job there...but as I said, I think there are others on the list who could do a better job. How many times a year could he kick 3-4 goals a game (particularly in his current form).

Fosdike's disposal is variable. He goes through phases when he repeatedly coughs it up under no pressure. Those outside midfielders generally get the luxury of kicking with a little more time and poise than the in-and-under types, so they have far less excuse for missing. And even his good disposals don't have the hurt factor of other players - ie they might hit their target but don't travel quickly enough or to imaginative spots to really open up a forward line. He's a decent player but there are tons of "outside" midfielders with far more damaging disposal skills. They just don't play for the Swans...

Therein lies his value...and also one of the Swans problems.

[lovetheswannies]

mcveigh has definitely been useless this year, i couldn't agree more... big disappointment. i really thought he would step up this year, like malceski.
he's got potential... just no where near fulfilling it right now...

[liz]

You really don't rate Davis?!?....that's suprising. I admit he's inconsistant...but he is becoming more consistant. I think he's current troubles have more to do with team structure than his own form.

I rate Davis at a lot of things - but not specifically on contested marking.

That said, there are many different types of contested mark. I rate him quite highly in relatively static contests where the main skills required are to read the ball in flight and then to position the body to protect the drop of the ball. So long as he has an opponent not significantly bigger than him, he does well here. The Geelong SF mark is a classic example of this. With most of these marks he is able to position his body so he effectively takes the mark on his chest, rather than out in front or overhead.

But I don't think there are that many opportunities for this kind of mark in a game. I don't recall ever seeing him take a screamer - or even one where he had to jump moderately high off the ground. And given no great leap, his stature means he won't be splitting any packs.

And in terms of more common contested marks, which normally require running to the ball or backwards with the flight of the ball, there are several Swans I'd rate significantly higher - O'Keefe, for example, on a hard but pressured lead is outstanding. Can anyone point to examples of Davis taking overhead contested marks? Not sure I can recall any specific examples.

[swantastic]

Watched the replay tonight and every body was right McVeigh was woeful,to put mildly.